CrunchGear

wwell since i use neither a MAC or a “PC” by which he menas windows, where does that leave me?;-)

I like MACs, I hate MAC users. MACs are good usable computers, OSX is a very nice operating system. I have a MAC mini that I use as my media box in my bedroom and to fill my iPod with podcasts. But most MAC users seem to have acquired the marketing tenor of Apple, that of “sophisticates” who are better than all us unwashed PC users. I find the commercials to be snobby, the company culture snobby, and most MAC users snobby. I think Apple should change their marketing slogan from “A computer for the rest of us” to a “A computer for the best of us”. At least that’s a more honest assessment of the cult of MAC.

Do I make myself clear?

hey what about linux users…i hate always being left out. :-(

Sounds like somebody needs a hug.

I just feel sorry for MAC users.

Macs are for non computer people who want BETTER operating system than Windows vista or xp. They are also for geeks who are sick of Microsoft’s crap, sick of Microsoft’s monopolistic control of the market, sick of Microsoft’s persecution of Open Source.

Charlie Brooker is a moron, this article is inaccurate. Macs are _not_ “computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work” if anything that is the stereotype of a typical WINDOWS user.

The geeks use Linux or BSD or Mac they do NOT use windows if they can help it. Everyone else, the non-technical people, should be using Mac instead of Windows because it is better.

Good Lord, Logan . . .

Calm down, he said he didn’t like Macs, he didn’t say he didn’t like you personaly.

Oh wait, he did . . .

sorry

Charlie would have had me had he been comparing PC and Linux users. “Windows is for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work.” Yep, much better.

Whilst I don’t go along with everything the Guardian said, I have to laugh at it, if only because it pricks the pomposity of Apple who have this love-in with a monopolistic (think iTunes/iPod DRM), money-grabbing ($100 a year for incremental non-upgrades anyone?) makers of overpriced/underspecced computers who somehow inspire near god-like devotion from some people.

Apple are no better nor worse than Microsoft - why can’t MAC users see that?

Personally, I much prefer Windows to OSX. It allows me to do more (try troubleshooting a network problem with a MAC - then tell me it doesn’t treat you like a kid), run more software, run games etc.

I don’t mind what OS anyone users - just don’t sit there with a smug smile on your face telling me how superior you are.

ha ha, i might just start getting the Guardian if they have more articles like this one. Certainly made me smile :-)

I agree about Mac users. They usually come off as being idiots, but the same can be said for Linux and Windows users.

As a web developer, I hate using windows, as a matter of fact, I think it’s almost worthless. Unless you are using ASP.NET or something ridiculous like that, you would have to agree with me.

Mac OS X is for the creative, it was designed and developed by creative people for create people. I cannot say the same for Windows. Their creativity comes from ideas already developed by Apple (Which really means they’re not creative).

Windows is for the IT people (although it has the weakest command line of any current OS). The network guys love windows and it works great on large and small network infrastructure. And unfortunately I work at a company that uses windows because they need Active Directory and Exchange.

Vista looks like an improvement, but it should: it took the nearly 6 years to complete it.

According to Wikipedia MAC is an acronym for various things none of which are the Apple Macintosh. When referring to the Macintosh computer it should not be all capitalised. i.e. Mac.

I find it telling that the guy equates Macs with “Fisher-Price” toys. He clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I use a Mac specifically because I’m a geek, a software engineer, and an IT sysadmin type who loves to tinker under the hood. The brilliance of Mac OS X is that it spans genres very well. Grandma will appreciate the simplicity and cleanness of its interface, and the geeks like me will spend our time down on the BSD layer writing bash scripts and compiling into /usr/local.

Windows also spans the genres, but does so poorly. Its GUI layer still does not come close to the elegance of Mac OS X, and its command line is beyond pathetic. Linux does better– its geek level is of course every bit as good, and sometimes even better, than the Mac, but despite good advances on the desktop, KDE still lags far behind in GUI design.

i think charlie brooker typifies the windows geek, not the typical windows user.

i have no stats other than my own experience but i’m willing to say that 80-85% of windows users are not geeks. just regular people with zero interest in computers. to them it’s a tool to get their job done.

imho, it behooves OS designers to create a system that facilitates this. for the most part, MS hasn’t done this. apple does. that is why mac users so vehemently despise windows. what burns even more is that apple does it with style.

when my mother can trouble shoot her pc laptop i’ll know that hell hath frozen over (–oh wait, it already has because macs can run windows, sorry…forgot.) until then she’ll happily stick with her ibook.

“Mac OS X is for the creative, it was designed and developed by creative people for create people.”

This implies to me that someone involved in the development process actually had inventive talent. Looking into the thin history books of computer science, only a few people made lasting inventions with impact, and this short list of inventors does not include anyone from Microsoft, Apple “Computer”, or the Linux community. On that note, especially not the Linux community compared to WinMac, which is to me just like the Japanese car manufacturers copying the advancements made by the German car manufacturers.

I use Linux and OS X at home, Windows at work…and I really don’t care what anybody thinks. There’s a purpose for every system.

Having said this, I certainly don’t consider myself as one of the smug Mac users and find the Apple commercials appalling. From Apple’s perspective, they are simply continuing history, which started with the Lemming commercial referencing IBM in 1984. Apple thought of itself as a competitor to IBM, which was laughable then, as well as now, but overestimating themselves is what they do best.

“Mac OS X is for the creative, it was designed and developed by creative people for create people.”

This is exactly the sort of pompous, smug crap that many Mac users come out with and really gets on my tits.

Obviously it pisses off other people as well

” “Mac OS X is for the creative, it was designed and developed by creative people for create people.”

This is exactly the sort of pompous, smug crap that many Mac users come out with and really gets on my tits.

Obviously it pisses off other people as well ”

My friend did you even try to do some research before criticizing what this guy is saying?

The people who created the original Mac were musicians, photographers who also happened to be really good programmers. And I know it would be hard for you digest this thats why here is a link I want you to see. http://www.billatkinson.com/Homepage.pl This guy Bill Atkinson was one of the original designers of the Mac GUI Interface. He is a nature photographer. And look he is still passionate about it. I can provide you with links of other people who were the original Mac team to make you realize that when people say: “Macs are more than a product, they reflect the passion of their designers” you don’t snub them.

Think Different. And I am not a Mac user because I cant afford them. Thats where you can criticize them. Not anywhere else.

“Mac OS X is for the creative, it was designed and developed by creative people for create people. I cannot say the same for Windows. Their creativity comes from ideas already developed by Apple (Which really means they’re not creative).”

Are you kidding? Tell me how exactly it is “for the creative” when just about every graphics app under the sun runs like shit on a mac. I’ve used both for years and I can tell you doing even the most rudimentary graphics operations (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.) on a mac is generally way slower. This has been proven with software benchmarks too by the way. This is of course unless you throw an extra 1000 dollars at hardware that you wouldn’t need to with a PC. Why not upgrade the processor or the motherboard….oh wait you can’t. The only thing “creative” about Apple is the way they’ve brilliantly managed to dupe the entire planet into thinking they invented the GUI (came from Xerox research incidentally) and into creating a marketers wet dream; thousands of people who actually believe the shit they tell you and then proceed with Amway-like devotion to tell everyone else. You people need to get a life a realize that a mac is just a friggin’ computer and you’re not special because of how much marketing drivel you can spew.

“the GUI (came from Xerox research incidentally)”

Thank you Jim and others!

I’m happy to see there are still people on this planet who question and don’t blindly buy into marketing campaigns.

It’s amazing how little you all know about the mac. I’ve thought for years that Apple would do well to use an advertising campaign that showed the os actually being used in a fast-paced but realistic way, using a handful of apps at once, showing some of the interaction, keystrokes, clever default behaviors, and eye candy. Because the odd truth is that many many people have never really used one or seen one used well. This sort of bare-all marketing would be a departure from their usual glossy approach, and I don’t anticipate seeing it soon. However I think the release of Leopard would be the perfect moment for such a campaign, as the dissatisfaction with Vista will be clear enough that a large segment of the population will be very uncomfortable about purchasing it.

The tough thing about the mac is that once you use it, you tend to kind of fall in love with it. Then, when you try to talk about it in measured tones, you get a little too gushy and people have a very hard time taking you seriously. I really think that showing works better than telling. And while you could just purchase one and get down to it, there are a lot of tricks that make it more fun - a resource for learning these would really enhance the mac’s reputation. I suppose I could make some screencasts and post them on youtube. I’ll plan on it.

Hey Mike, which part of “we are Mac users, too” did you not get? …geek boy

Is it really possible to care? What a waste of time…

I simply love these Windows vs Mac lovefests. Usually somebody says something about the Mac delivering a better experience, and the other retorts about hating Macs and the worshipers of the Church of Mac. The real issue here is whether or not the system is better. It is not about market share. It is not about the sanctity of Bill or Steve (they are both aggressive capitalists, nasty boys under the surface).

The only way to settle this is for the windows fans to keep their indignation about the pompous mac fans in check, take the latest iteration of mac containing its latest operation system and immerse themselves in it for one or two weeks and then give feedback. It generally would not make sense for the Mac people to do the same, because they most likely already use windows and have made up their minds based on their experience. Accessibility to windows in their case is dictated by market share.

On the other hand, most Windows users have actually never even seen a mac, but have heard about it, as something that is not really “a serious computer.” This is a different attitude than macarrogance. What is it?

el - since you must have read this, i’m assuming you do care. why do you post otherwise??? :P

sphincter - TOO TRUE! You got me. And even better I am back to read your response. Just think it is funny how on-going this debate is. I have both and use both AND like both. Wow, does that make me bi-technical, confused, what? What a conflict I seem to have. What’s worse is I didn’t even know it. Apparently I really have to figure out my brand loyalty don’t I?
Peace.

So “Macs are for non computer people who want BETTER operating system than Windows vista or xp. … Everyone else, the non-technical people, should be using Mac instead of Windows because it is better.”

That’s funny. That is EXACTLY what Charlie was talking about. Care to tell us why it’s better? Just because you said so?

Ok, I’m so sick of this Windows vs mac debate. Mac’s are good for some people because of their integration with certain software, such as adobe, itunes, etc. PC’s are good for others, such as those that game, like to build their own systems, etc. Truthfully, Macintosh should forget about making pc’s and stick to software. Then, they would truly be on even grounds with windows. If I could tri-boot my system with Ubuntu, XP, and OSX I would love it (right now I’ll settle with Ubuntu and XP). But, these commercials are nothing but mud flinging, especially the one about bloatware, like windows can help that certain unnamed manufacturers (*cough dell, cough gateway, cough hp/compaq, cough many others) like to put bloatware on a system for more money.

I will never own a Mac because I can’t stand Mac users. When you talk to a Mac user, all they do is rag on Windows. They talk and talk about how superior they are to Windows users. Telling me how stupid I am for using Windows is not the way to win me over to your side. The new commericals for Mac just feed into this Mac mentality. I admit that Windows can be a headache but I will never buy a Mac as long as their users have this type of mentality. You Mac users can screw off for all I care.

When did anyone on Windows last check out a Mac… properly?

“I will never own a Mac because I can’t stand Mac users. When you talk to a Mac user, all they do is rag on Windows. They talk and talk about how superior they are to Windows users. Telling me how stupid I am for using Windows is not the way to win me over to your side. The new commericals for Mac just feed into this Mac mentality. I admit that Windows can be a headache but I will never buy a Mac as long as their users have this type of mentality. You Mac users can screw off for all I care.”

that’s hilarious hypocrisy.

My 0.02 … _To me_ a Mac is a nice way to have Unix AND a good GUI, and run Windows if I feel the need, I don’t often feel that need.

Personally I’ve used a very wide array of machines, and one thing that I’ve always been painfully aware of are these stupid flame wars about how my machine is better than your machine, it’s infantile and more to the point, it’s a horrific illustration of product loyalty gone wrong, you may want to think about how much it means to anyone, to push your opinion out there, like a turd?

Charlie’s certainly a funny guy, and not to mention deeply unhappy. But if I really want to know which operating system is best for me, I will try it out for myself, and see what fits. Anyone who’s actually bothered to re-assess the situation often enough will know that Mac’s have changed over the years, sometimes doing certain things better than Windows, and sometimes Windows has done things better then the Mac…

For a while the PC version of Photoshop was a lot better than the Mac version, this was around the time XP was first launched, and it was simply a bit more stable than Mac os at the time. Flash too used to be a better app to run on Windows.

It’s not really true anymore, but right now, I think Adobe Illustrator is working better on Windows than on Mac…. I mention these apps because they’re classic candidates for a Mac user.

Of course, if you like to run games and don’t like consoles, for instance you’re an FPS player who MUST use the mouse, the PC is a nice low cost solution to sort you out your fragging fix.

Right now, I’m a Mac user for the following reasons…

Windows Media Center… sh*t. Windows Vista… sh*t. (my opinion, not yours, sorry)

And I want to run my living room entertainment from a computer of some sort. Mac Mini running a 42in LCD is a very nice combo… does everything I need, plus I can run some home-based services online like a personal SVN repo and SSH, all of which are easy to setup because I’m a Unix head too, so it suits me fine… I have to say, the experience of being able to use the same command set on my own machine as I use on any remote host I’m working on has made me an even better Unix head because of the immersion level.

After the positive experience with the Mac / TV combo, I needed to upgrade my Sony Vaio, which was getting a bit long in the tooth, at the time I was looking the Mac Book Pro simply had two things going for it, it had the fastest CPU in a laptop (period) and I knew it would run windows ok via Bootcamp, a couple of my contractors had MacBooks and windows was looking stable enough.

So I got one, and probably spend more time on the command line than most mac users, and most windows users for that matter, so why would it make any difference? It is just better, I never *need* to run Windows, and every time I do actually start up an instance in Parallels, I notice just how poorly put together it is, there’s no halo effect from the iPod, there’s no Mac fanboy rubbish, I just know that the Mac Os is cleaner, better, and more stable than Windows Vista and Windows XP.

You see when it comes down to it, there are two types of Mac users… the shiny icon clicking people who are actually happy using their machine, and then there’s the Unix geeks like me who give them a whirl and find out they are actually a very nice way to have a Unix machine without putting up with KDE / Gnome or Solaris front end GUI’s (which aren’t exactly the slickness, well, not yet anyway)

Windows users come in all sorts of flavours, from MS fanboys, to people who are sick to death of Windows but would be happier sticking with what they know because learning or change hurts them… Whatever the reason they are staying with windows, it’s probably not due to a particularly rigourous intellectual decision.

Not that I’m asserting that Windows users are stupid, of course, I’d never do that.

But why do they feel the need to keep telling Mac users that windows is better, trust me we’ve all tried Windows… we all know Windows. Some of us better than others.