Mash-up Courtesy of MacThemesForums
Comparing OS X to Windows Vista is a correlation fraught with peril. There is so much to like in each operating system that picking a winner in each category was difficult and bound to get me flamed. What follows is a non-exhaustive examination of OS X Tiger and Vista. Clearly, Leopard is on its way and will change the game considerably, but since Steve hasn’t called to tell us when or where that’s happening, we’re going to work with what we have.
So, without further ado, let the OS X vs. Vista bumfight begin.
UI – This is one we can really sink our teeth into. As we said before, Vista is very attractive and easy to grasp. Whereas OS X still has a number of strangeMac-isms stuck in its craw (red, yellow, and green window buttons, anyone?), Windows is extremely straightforward.
First, I rarely use Finder and instead have taken to using Path Finder, a richer and more information-packed shell. If Vista wins in this case it is in the preview functions available at the bottom of the window. While both operating systems have strikingly similar shells, this simple bar at the bottom saves hours of frustration. Clearly, this can be modified in both OSes, but out of the box this is a big plus for Vista.
Meh…
Otherwise, the rest of Vista’s improvements are purely aesthetic. I consider Vista “better looking” than OS X at this point, but only in the Aero UI and only at a cosmetic level. Not surprisingly, many of the improvements stop at the application level and it is quite disconcerting to see old applications like Paint show up inside Aero’s fancy glass UI. OS X is an older UI and it now shows. It’s hard to fault Apple’s older standards, but they do have a lot of catching up to do in terms of visual presentation of data.
Winner: VISTA
Security – Here’s a tough one. Which is more secure? The operating system with no known viruses or an operating system built on a platform that, at last count, had five bajillion (this number is based on strict statistics) security holes? That said, Vista is a definitely a step in the right direction. You cannot do anything—run a new program, install a piece of hardware, or blow your nose—without Vista pinging you on it. Vista also includes virus and adware scanners—which some say lock out competitors products—and advanced phishing protection.
But OS X has one thing going for it: our trust in its innate goodness. I’ll download anything and everything, secure in the knowledge that I won’t get logic bombed into oblivion. Worms are rebuffed and Internet hacks are almost non-existent. While Vista will definitely have some sort of major exploit emerge within the next year, with OS X I can visit porn site after porn site without worrying that some insane Direct X application will destroy my files. I still don’t feel comfortable enough with Vista to trust it to keep me safe. That’s why I got my Dad a Mac Mini. His XP machine was so full of junk that it was almost unusable. Now he is able to do everything and I don’t have to act as his 24/7 tech support drone.
Winner: OS X
Speech Recognition – Hands down, Vista. Voice recognition in OS X is an afterthought at best and cripple-ware at worst . I’m not big on voice recognition, but I do know when someone has gotten it right.
Gee, thanks…
Talk to Me
Winner: VISTA
Web Browsing – Internet Explorer 7 is quite nice, but it can’t beat Mozilla on either platform. Whereas both operating systems have had tabbed browsing, through Mozilla, for years, for IE to introduce it this late in the game is a travesty. Out of the box, Safari is considerably quicker and easier to manage than Vista’s icon-heavy IE 7. Thankfully IE 7 has improved phishing detection, but it’s too little too late in this case.
On the other hand, Safari has a lot of problems browsing much of the web. Sites fail to load properly almost by default and as a result. the browser has distinct usability issues .
TIE
Multimedia Authoring – Vista is blessed with a very powerful set of media authoring tools that rival or improve on the iLife collection. Vista’s Photo Gallery photo organization tool is considerably approved over XP’s “Ummm… stick them in that folder over there” system of organization while the Movie Maker and DVD Maker applications owe much of their usability to iLife itself. You can easily create multimedia with Vista out of the box.
The Vista Suite – Photo Gallery, MovieMaker, and DVD Maker
iLife – iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD
Nevertheless, iLife is still the gold standard for powerful movie and DVD authoring along with intelligent photo browsing and sharing. With iPhoto, you can share photos with other Macs on the network, for example, and iMovie and iDVD are powerful without being overwhelming. I would be comfortable editing professional video using iMovie. I don’t feel the same comfort with Vista’s applications.
Winner: OS X
Widgets/Gadgets – This is a tough one. Apple’s Widgets are hobbled because they require a single click to enable. Clearly, Vista’s always on sidebar of gadgets is considerably more useful than the OS X Dashboard but the glut of available widgets makes us like OS X a bit better. Again, it is too early to tell, but at this point I prefer Vista’s sidebar over Dashboard.
Winner: VISTA
Kernel – Clearly it is difficult to compare as Windows and OS X are built on two divergent technologies that are years old and, in some cases, not very well documented. As a layman and, at least in a current SDK and kernel development sense, a non-programmer, I can only say that OS X is based on a FreeBSD and Mach kernel while Vista is based on NT and its attendant technologies.
Windows has a number of interesting improvements added to its presentation layer as well as its search system. These run neck-and-neck or a close second to XNU (that’s what they call the OS X kernel. Who knew?) One major issue, however, is the graceful mounting and unmounting of external devices. Windows has OS X beat hands down thanks to differences in the file system and the way disk activity is given priority in the kernel. This is a huge pet peeve.
OS X is opaquely open-source while Windows Vista is ostensibly not. While a direct value cannot be placed on either of those two descriptions, fans of Linux will definitely be comfortable with OS X while Windows fans can go years without touching the command line. Both of these operating systems are “graphical” in the broadest sense, which has kept the mass of kernel functionality hidden from the average user.
TIE
Performance – Now we get down to brass tacks. Which operating system “works” better? I’ve used OS X every day for the past two years and used XP regularly before that. On a two year old Pentium 4 machine with an equally aged graphics card, Vista runs like a champ. This is very strange to me and my brain is having difficulties processing it. I have a Mac Pro with two Dual Core Xeon processors and 1GB of DDR2 RAM and the PC is running at about 3.20 GHz. So what is going on here?
Like it or not, operating systems accrue a number of slowdown issues over time. This is a completely fresh Vista install while the Mac Pro has been in constant use for about four months. Does this excuse poor performance on Apple’s part? No, but it does give us pause. If Vista is this peppy out of the box, how peppy will it be once the disk and registry are full of garbage? I can’t answer that right now, but for my money I would say Vista is considerably more impressive, from a productivity standpoint, than this Mac Pro. Would I switch? Probably not—I love everything OS X has to offer. Is Vista a great OS? Yes.
Winner: VISTA
Verdict – In the context of this examination, we see that Vista is currently pouncing all over OS X Tiger in most scenarios. Microsoft has considerably improved its flagship product and should be applauded for taking so many modern operating system concepts and dragging them front and center. That said, what should you buy? Clearly, everyone’s use case is different. As a certified Mac fanboy, I would recommend OS X to anyone who has no interest in experiencing the many negatives that drove me away from XP in the first place, namely weak security and a lack of media authoring tools. Vista is currently in its infancy, however, and the jury is still out on security and ease-of-use over time. If you have to use Windows, use Vista. If you want to join millions of happy Macites, go right ahead. The choice, as they say, is yours.
Apple vs. The World is a collection of features by the CrunchGear team about the present and future of Apple Inc.
One thing that absolutely frustrates me about OS X and it’s like mind boggling they haven’t fixed this – the lack of a print selection function. There are ways around this require multiple steps. Windows – one click of the mouse. Windows has had the ability to do this for as long as I can remember and its available in nearly every single program that can print.
If I wanted to print this article and leave out all the comments, I can’t simply highlight JUST THE FRIGGIN article and click PRINT SELECTION. Pisses me off Mac! And…back to my center of peace. ;)
One thing that absolutely frustrates me about OS X and it’s like mind boggling they haven’t fixed this – the lack of a print selection function. There are ways around this require multiple steps. Windows – one click of the mouse. Windows has had the ability to do this for as long as I can remember and its available in nearly every single program that can print.
If I wanted to print this article and leave out all the comments, I can’t simply highlight JUST THE FRIGGIN article and click PRINT SELECTION. Pisses me off Mac! And…back to my center of peace. ;)
BTW… I use Safari all day long and have on some occasions encountered problems with websites needing Windows Media Player. Installed FlipMac but that doesn’t always cut it.(Not sure if that’s what you were referring to in the article.) Never have a problem when I surf with IE7.
Also have problems with security when multiple tabs are open within Safari. I get popups galore from Netflix when surfing Engadget.
Winsows vista completely copied mac osx
totally biased report… based COMPLETELY on someone who only likes windows anyway
Interesting report.Many people are getting a little heated saying it is all opinion blah blah blah…. OF COURSE IT IS – without opinions and the ability to hear others – how do I make a good decision on whether to buy it or not.I have been a windows user my whole life only using Macs now and again – however when I have used them (MACS) I can immediatley appreciate they are extremely user friendly, have better graphics, seem to be more stable etc .What do I use my computer for? Simple I browse,read, download demos write letters etc – now I could do all this safely from my MAC etc without any worry about hacks etc -BUT, a big BUT The Windows is easier for me to get new software – the library is bigger ! That may be because there are more members in the library but that is now something that is unavoidable.
SO at the end of the day the only way for me to keep up with the world is in a sense to check out those making the biggest leaps – they unfortunately or fortunately are normally those creating windows based programs.
Which brings me to my final point – I have a 4 x4 when I go offroad and another car for everyday use – I dont need them both but if I want to have the right car for the right task (Macs and PCs) then I need them both – I alittle greedy I guess but people need to get away from trying to have a Mac because it is better or a pc becuase there is more – Just get the one that suits you – John was just trying to give you a way to tell
Neil
Just curious, I’ve seen some modded macs with custom chipsets and have been looking at the different kinds of software that allows people to run windows only software on a mac.
I understand any of these custom mac mods aren’t about to be done by the average user, but wouldn’t a mac that can run windows applications with minimal performance degradation kinda beat out a windows pc as far as capability?
I’m kinda a noob as far as technology goes…so…feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Or beat me with a large stick…though I would prefer to not be beaten with a large stick….
Thanks, MacIt, for calling out all the people who cluttered up what started as a nice article with their hasteful (and hateful) banter. It’s funny how JohnBiggs can state plainly that this is non-exhaustive, an opinion, and bound to get him flamed, and people still take the bait that was never there. Also ironic is how many Mac users got angry about someone having a unique opinion and choosing to be different from mainstream. Macheads shouldn’t get their feelings hurt if someone chooses Windows, nor should they hold their nose up and attribute it to a lack of intelligence. There are many reasons to go either way. Also, enough with the drivers/security/no BSOD banter, it’s tired. Mac has it WAY easier in the driver department which is a plus but not something to brag about, the security debate is not a fair fight because Mac again has the easy way out (not that easy isn’t smart and better), and lastly my girlfriend locks up her MacBook Pro now and then just checking her webmail and browsing (and yes she is a careful PC user, I rebuilt her OLD thinkpad a20 with XP before the Mac and she used it for three years without a problem) of course there’s no blue screen to help by reporting what the problem is, it just freezes and has to be rebooted. …but I digress.
As for my reaction to the article, it highlights some points that are important to me. The conclusions are subjective, but he explains why so it’s easy to figure out if I would feel the same or go the other way.
One thing was touched on in the responses that I would like to reiterate, on comparing XP to Tiger, Tiger to Vista, Vista to Leopard. XP was released in Oct 2001, so leave it alone. Tiger is better, but that’s not really saying much except to confirm that Apple isn’t staffed by under-achievers, as it was released almost 4 years later. Tiger and Vista are much closer in birthdate (1.5 years) but still kinda far apart for technology comparisons. If Leopard actually releases in the next couple months then we’ll have a better fight, but it is still easy to win when you wait to see your competitor’s car drive some test laps before you finish building yours – wait, that’s what all the Macheads are saying about Vista copying Tiger, so you basically have to agree with me here (except that you don’t think Vista is better than Tiger, I got it). I happen to like both Windows XP/Vista and OS X(.x) and think it’s great that both Apple and MS are reacting to what people like about their competitor’s product.
As an aside, all this excitement over Time Machine is annoying. I realize that to Mac users who have left Windows behind long ago, this is an epiphany. However, while Time Machine is great and no doubt will be tops when it finally releases, its technologies have long been enjoyed by XP and Server 2003 users worldwide. So who is copying whom when it comes to new OS’s? (that was a rhetorical question, please spare us any attempts to answer it, as the obvious underlying answer is all successful businesses copy the best ideas from their competitors’ latest releases). I do need to check out what hybrid of system restore and shadow copying is in Vista – I’ve been sitting on my enterprise copy for 3 months now and no time to install it, maybe when my new hardware comes in next week.
DooLick,
You make some interesting claims with out any supporting info. Especially about the Time Machine being copied from Windows…I would like to see a credible reference on this…
Also, on security you say Mac has the easy way out..exactly what do you mean by that? Hopefully you are not referring to the market share argument….I dismissed that one in my previous post. Also, its fair to say that the OS X is a more secure platform than Windows….I will cite a reference here and you can read it for yourself.
Article Is Windows Inherently more vulnerable to Malware Attacks than OS X?
http://www.infoworld.com/archives/emailPrint.jsp?R=printThis&A=http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisemac/archives/2006/08/is_windows_inhe.html&source=searchresult
If you like Windows use it, I don’t have a problem with that..I do have a problem with all the people who some how claim that Windows is just as secure as OS X, when all the facts say otherwise.
Also on your girlfriends machine locking of just checking mail…does not make a lot of sense….unless she has some hardware problem….software wise…it’s pretty difficult to do that.
I have been stress testing my MacBook Pro just to see what it would take to crash it…since I bought it in early january 2007. I opened up 30+ applications quickly, played video in the Mac, Played Video in Windows using Parallels, surfed the internet, etc….For a couple of times my Mac was not responsive…I thought I had crashed it….after waiting a 1 minute or so it always came back.
I let it run a couple of days like this, no crash….so I find it hard to believe that just checking email, and surfing the web causes your girlfriend’s Mac to crash.
Why is it Apple vs. World! Apple is not fighting the World. It is giving soul and brains to Window’s Zombies. It is showing a path to freedom to Window’s slaves.
-Viswakarma
“Soul and brains to Window’s [sic] Zombies”?
I think this speaks for itself. I’ve noticed that Apple fanboys do a positively horrific job of representing their preferred OS. When Viswakarma starts talking about magical unicorns, floating candy bubbles, and pink dancing bunnies, then you’ll know he’s started talking about his Mac.
As was already stated man, lay off the LSD…
ok…. security?… if you are a hacker, and you see all the adds apple is running about security and so on, you go online and all the Mac “fanboys/girls” do nothing but claim that Macs are so safe and that they are unhackable and stuff, wouldn’t you be just a bit inspired lets say to create the very FIRST successful virus for OSX?… I mean just to say I did it… I was the first if not for anything else?
there is also this http://db.tidbits.com/article/02166 nice article … keep in mind this is an old article and the Mac in question was running the OLD OS9.
for those of you who are lucky enough to live close to an Apple store, take a walk there on the weekends, and then go to your local sony or dell store or kiosk; I am lucky enough to have all 3 in one mall, and wile the Apple store has anywere b2ing 60-75 people there the other 2 have maybe 7-10 people… b2ing them…
you are happy with windows?… great more power to you, wish you the best of luck, but the reality is that more and more people are realizing that there are other alternatives besides windows, and that some of those are actually very nice and suit their needs just fine or in most cases better than windows EVER did.
ok…. security?… if you are a hacker, and you see all the adds apple is running about security and so on, you go online and all the Mac “fanboys/girls” do nothing but claim that Macs are so safe and that they are unhackable and stuff, wouldn’t you be just a bit inspired lets say to create the very FIRST successful virus for OSX?… I mean just to say I did it… I was the first if not for anything else?
there is also this http://db.tidbits.com/article/02166 nice article … keep in mind this is an old article and the Mac in question was running the OLD OS9.
for those of you who are lucky enough to live close to an Apple store, take a walk there on the weekends, and then go to your local sony or dell store or kiosk; I am lucky enough to have all 3 in one mall, and wile the Apple store has anywere b2ing 60-75 people there the other 2 have maybe 7-10 people… b2ing them…
you are happy with windows?… great more power to you, wish you the best of luck, but the reality is that more and more people are realizing that there are other alternatives besides windows, and that some of those are actually very nice and suit their needs just fine or in most cases better than windows EVER did.
Vista is better right now, but when the new Mac Os comes out it will be better, and then the cycle will continue. I’m getting Vista since I don’t have a Mac and Vista will be more widely used than OSX or whatever Apple produces, simply because Windows is the most popular Os in the world. Microsoft must have done something right in advertising way back in the day. Also Apple should really consider making operating systems for PC’s also not just Macs. They need to be more flexible
shawn,
Why do you think Vista is better than OS X? You say in your comment that you don’t own a Mac or Vista machine….
Just curious how you can make such a statement. Most Windows experts are saying the opposite and have converted to Macs….
very puzzling…..
I believe people can make unbiased comparisons only if they use both OS’s everyday. Many Mac users use also Windows. I believe MS will never be able to achieve the stability of the current Mac OS. This is because Apple has tighter control over its hardware and software. For MS it is impossible to do so for obvious reasons. And they never will. People forget that MS does not make PC’s. They produce only the OS. Apple engineers the whole system from hardware to software. How can you compare Apple with MS? How can MS promise that the Windows PC is reliable and user-friendly? Apple can because they engineer the whole thing. Lastly check the PDF article below that shows the performance between Vista, XP and Mac OS (Tiger). Windows users will be shocked.
http://pfeifferreport.com/trends/Vista_UIF_Rep.pdf
l
I have to give it to Microsoft. They really did a great job on the GUI for Windows Vista. But still, I have found MAJOR bugs on the new Vista os. It seems to work pretty good on home based users but it does not behave the same way on huge networks. Network stability for mix environment is still an issue. it very easily and it is very fragile to exploit. It still has to work out some big issues with Sun’s java apps. I still cannot find any big difference other that the new GUI that makes it better to Mac OS. Tiger is simply more stable on any feature. I still would like to see what Leopard has to offer, since I was not impresses by Steve Jobs presentation.
And whatever they have to say about Apple’s Safary web browser, I’m sorry to inform you that Safary’s perfomance kicks out by far Microsoft IE 7. Just push it and you’ll see. In overall I would have to say that Vista is simply … pretty. Still, Mac OS rocks!
geez, nothing like a windows/mac row. I’m trying to find whether I should switch to mac – reading rewiews, posts and the like and heated arguments are becoming the norm. Hey I know this is completely unrelated and most likely another incorrect fact but I’ll say it anway. Does Vista block LimeWire and other p2ps and bit torrent and ‘free music/sofware’ sites in an effort to crackdown on people downloading but not paying rights? Probably number 1 zillion of the 1 zillion and 1 myths but I’d like someone who knows anything about it to give it to me straight – fact or fiction?
A free acer laptop with Vista to anyone who goes by the name ‘macboy’ hehe.
Industry leaders even choose OS X over Windows!
I don’t understand why you windows dummies defend Widows when even its cheif designer admitted to Ballmer and Gates that he would by a Mac if he did not work for Microsoft! And the the other internal messages that they need to make vista more like OS X!
Just comical you dummies go around saying Vista is better, when its designer says he’d rather use a Mac! LOL Look at the facts below…hopefully you are intelligent enouhg to see that many experts know that OS X is better than any Windows OS. If you like more proof than listed below…..just let me know.
”
James Allchin Vista Chief – “…I would buy a mac if”
Les Vadasz – a founding member of Intel, the design manager for the world’s first DRAM, EPROM and microprocessor- “..finally get to buy the computer of my dreams…a MacBook Pro”
Former Chief of Intel CEO/chairman Andy Grove Loves His iMac, by Philip Elmer-Dewitt, Time Magazine, September 23, 1998.
And let’s not forget: James Allchin, Microsoft’s Head of Vista, said he covets a Mac; Pat Gelsinger, General Manager of Intel’s Digital Enterprise Group, bought two Macs.
So, when you’ve got your own executives (Microsoft) as well as those of one of the most powerful suppliers (Intel) in the tech sector singing the praises of your competitors’ (Apple’s) products, all cannot be good. It also raises the interesting question that if Vista requires so much memory and processing power that current XP users would actually need to upgrade machines to properly use the new software, then why not try a Mac? Allchin likes it. Gelsinger likes it. Millions of people love it. And Steve Jobs loves it.”
taken from
http://ce.seekingalpha.com/article/30474
Related articles:
Intel CEO Otellini: If you want security now, buy a Macintosh instead of a Wintel PC Wednesday, May 25, 2005 – 10:23 AM EDT
Intel CEO Otellini praises Apple iPhone, OS X; says Windows can’t cut it in mobile space Tuesday, March 06, 2007 – 09:49 AM EDT
WSJ: Apple makes inroads with Macs that can run Mac OS X, Linux, Windows – March 20, 2007
More on Wilkes University’s plan to dump all Windows PCs, replace with superior Apple Macs – March 16, 2007
Network World: Need a new PC for Vista? Switching to Mac may cost less and give you more – March 16, 2007
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Ref: shinobi
Get your facts straight alchin states he would buy a mac over xp NOT Vista
And what with the list…oh hang on a mo give me 1 minute>
Linus Torvalds has spoken. Apple’s MacOS X, he says, is “a piece of crap”.
and…………..you dont get more pro than linus..
I was always surprised at those commercials. In my experience Apples crashed much more frequently.
the mac crashes were much worse than XP crashes. The only way out was to do a shutdown.
Yep. Macs crash. I got a series of kernel panics (multi-lingual “you must shut your computer down now”. Dang irritating.
Oh sure, FCP disappears regularly. It doesn’t freeze, it’s just suddenly gone, though. Firefox and Safari do it too, in combination with Flip4mac and WMV-videos embedded in web pages.
iMovie has crashed on me too, it seems to crash regularly for some other people I know (and yet is stable for others).
John: I’ve seen Mac OSX crash all the way down too. Dave Winer has pics of it happening on his system.
Welcome back to Macland Robert. Yes, Macs do crash. My favorite is the full blown Kernel Panic (you will learn about those!) IMHO Mac OS X stability peaked at 10.2.8 and then has gone down a bit.
my installation did corrupt itself. I could log in, but after that the system wouldn’t recognize my password, so I couldn’t make system changes, install anything, or run software that required an admin password (like Retrospect Express backup software). And the always suggested, but seldom helpful, “Repaire file permissions” didn’t fix the problem. I eventually had to reinstall the system (actually, I wiped the drive in installed
I was persuaded by Mac-owning friends to ’switch’ to an iBook in Jan 2006. I found it crashed just as much as my old Dell/XP laptop, no better.I started to feel over-evangelized by my Mac friends. So after 6 months I switched back to Dell, this time the superb WUXGA 1900×1200 screen, and I’m happy, with no crashes.
It’s just buggy software. And yes, buggy software is also available on OS X. It’s not just the sole domain of Windows apps.
I just don’t get these Mac people. I’ve owned various Mac’s for 7 years and run OSX since it’s earliest public beta release.
Folks, Mac’s crash. They crash often, they crash hard. iMovie crashes too and recovering lost projects is pretty much a lost cause. Anyone telling you otherwise either doesn’t use their Mac or fires it up once in a while to launch one of Apple’s own apps.
Trust me Robert, as a long time Mac user you will see your shiny new Mac crash. There might be a pretty translucent screen instead of a blue one, but crash it will.
It is rather telling that they show you on the Apple website how to do a hard reset.
[…] Lets ask some high profile Mac users, like Dave Winer: “Good question. The answer is that computers crash, even Macs. In my experience, they [Macs] crash more than Windows machines.”, or even Robert Scoble:”Last week on the way home from Montana Ryanne was editing her video on her Mac. The app just suddenly disappeared from screen. In my book that’s called a crash. I found that to be very strange cause the hype on Macs is that they never crash. But, those commercials are so strong. The hype is so strong.” […]
I only recently switched to a Mac (second-hand G5 from eBay) and have had some application hangs, but no system crash. A friend of mine however switched the same day to a 20″ iMac and his Mac had a system hang the first day.
I haven’t seen my Toshiba tablet crash, not even since I’ve started to use Vista. My home system would hang periodically, which was caused by bad display drivers. I’ve read/heard somewhere (guess it was Major Nelson’s podcast, but not sure) that the majority of system hangs are caused by bad video drivers.
We’ve just sent FIVE brand new 15 inch Macbook Pro’s back to Apple in Australia for replacement after each and every one, out of the box, experienced repeated kernel panics. (Grey screen of death, if you’ve never had the pleasure
My wife and I are experiencing the Myth of the Mac. We recently purchased a new MacBook so that Tracy could have a laptop and so I could do previews on Safari for my development projects.
First things first. After waiting a very long time for it to make its global trek from Suzhou China to Nova Scotia. We tried to turn the system on and we got nothing. It was dead. We thought maybe it needed to charge. Nope.
After looking throught he manual to find out what to do if it won’t turn on and proceed to exercize our hands through the intricate key-press combinations that could qualify as a sobriety test the system would come on but if you moved it it would shut down. If you touched it wrong it would shut down.
We called Apple to send it back. They said sure.
We have recieved the new one (that works) and now are attempting to network with my multi system windows based home office network.
Holy crap. I have set up all sorts Windows and Linux networks using SMB and the like and always with relative ease. Trying to give the MacBook access to the windows files is a major pain. Fortunately I have a network sys admin background or I wouldn’t have been able to connect to my file server using the archaic server address required to connect.
After a week I still can’t connect to my shared Epson printer which I had always been able to connect to using my Nix boxes.
Mac is easy so long as you have never used a computer before. That way you won’t be missing what you can’t do.
The Myth Of Mac is stong and powerful but it is just that–a myth.
i bought a new mac only to be entirely dissapointed. The system on it went down regularly… and the warranty-covered checkups provided a temporary fix accompanied by comments such as “This is so strange… Macs never act this way.” After 6 months of this (and the loss of a few key presentations in the process), I ended up switching back to Windows. It’s a clunky OS… but sadly it’s also more consistent than my Mac. Vista may be the way to go.
I worked for 10 years for a company that exclusively used various Mac products and I’ll tell you this – Oh yeah they crash. And when they crash there is nothing to do but restart it. At work either giggled or rolled our eyes whenever we heard “Macs Never Crash”.
Macs do crash. This is no surprise to anyone who’s used enough of them. It’s purely a myth that they don’t crash. Perhaps it’s a myth propagated by those who have never had their personal Mac crash, but there are people with XP who have never experienced a crash, either. The vast majority of my own crashes on XP are of my own doing for using beta drivers and beta programs all over the place. Other than that, I find it very stable. Macs are very stable, too, but the belief that they’re far less prone to crashes is a myth.
This is news to anyone? In my old uni almost all the Macs (almost always iMacs) crashed regularly. You couldn’t even get anything STARTED; it’ll just hang at bootup. The Windows machines weren’t as bad. Indeed, this happened so frustratingly often that now any of us who’s ever been to that uni has a universal hatred of Macs.
Everything crashes, but lately Macs annoy me the most.
some background, I am an IT troubleshooter/consultant at a small company, they run about 20 Macs and 5 XP PC’s hooked up to a MS 2003 small business server +Exchange server.
I’ve been in charge of updates for all the machines and the most surprising thing I found was, unlike the Win Xp Machines (which get a ton of updates grumble reboot and are fine) Mac Security Updates can blow away the whole system.
During the update to 10.4.7 2 of the 20 Macs got locked into looping on the login.app or some such nonsense and refused to boot after the restart. After exhausting every tool I had (running disk repair and permissions, fsck etc) I had to format and reinstall both of them. Granted one had only 3 gigs free, however the second had 60 gigs free and same error. Also I had disconnected all 3rd party devices and disconnected them from the network during the update so It bugged me a lot.
But yeah I dual boot xp and linux at home so from my experience working here.
All 3 freeze crash and hang. And while I wasn’t expecting an OS security update to blow away whole computer’s I can’t any of the 3 have been a joy to work with.
oh and HP Printers +Mac OSX have also been hit or miss arround here Sometimes its software sometimes its just the os
Comment by quik666777 — August 17, 2006 @ 10:56 am
IT JUST WORKS :)
Lazy…..
Can you give some links(references) on some of the stuff you are saying…then I will get my facts straight.
Far as Macs crashes…I am sure some do….I personally have not had mine crash…and I have tried to bring it down several times to test its stability.
My XP laptop is way more stable than 98…but If I use it on the internet….it becomes unstable….Yes I have a firewall and anti-malware software installed and updated!
If you are implying that Unix is not stable….you are simply not telling the truth! So whatever you say…looses credibility
@ Lazy….
Just as I thought you are misrepresenting information to trying to make a point. Linus is the creator of Linux….of course he is going to say something negative about OS X so that people will think that Linux is better!
is that the best you got….You might as well ask bill gates if windows is better than OS X! I am sure he will say simliar things…
Unbelievable Bulll! How about some credible information….
Here is an article with Linus retracting his statement! You should get your facts straight before making such an a$$ out of yourself!
Torvalds corrects Mac OS X statement posted 3:07pm EST Thu Apr 12 2001 – submitted by V_drive
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001apr/gee20010412005367.htm
NEWS
After reports surfaced about Linus Torvalds referring to the Mach microkernel as “a piece of crap” in his new book, the creator of Linux clarified his statements in an ITWorld article.
The Mach microkernel is the basis for Mac OS X. Torvalds stated that he “never commented on OS X,” and further offered praise for Mac OS X:
All of the interesting stuff in OS X is actually outside the kernel: what makes Macs special is not the OS (which historically has had tons of design problems, even more so than Mach ever has — so OS X is bound to be a big leap forward), but the UI and the ease of use. Which has very little indeed to do with Mach.
Torvalds also stated that tech luminaries are often taken too seriously, and that people need to develop their own opinions.
ROB’S OPINION
So, it appears that Torvalds’ comment about the Mach microkernel that Mac OS X is based on was really a relative comment. Mach is a piece of crap, but an OS based on Mach can still be viable. I get the feeling that Torvalds really disliked the Mach microkernel in comparison to his own kernel, but still sees it as an improvement over the kernel in Mac OS 9.x.
Torvalds would like people to stop taking him so seriously, but such is the life of a famous person or expert in a field. Whenever Torvalds makes his opinion known on a subject regarding kernel programming, people will certainly listen. For example, I’d give his opinion about microkernels a lot more credence than the opinion of someone who is not a kernel programmer. In fact, I’d give his opinion more credence than that of almost any kernel programmer, as he is at the top of the heap.
I certainly found it worrisome that he had bad things to say about the Mach kernel that Mac OS X is based on, such as, “It contains all the design mistakes you can make, and manages to even make up a few of its own.” Further explanation by Torvalds was definitely in order. Sure, he didn’t comment directly on Mac OS X by name, but he did make very disparaging comments about the code that it was based on. It sounds to me like Torvalds made stronger statements than he meant to about minute kernel differences that, in the long run, don’t make much difference at all.
hey!!
This is a small comment from a small man …… sorri i have really just flicked through this war of words and don’t bug me if i get anything off track….
ok … to say is that people are people and one of these things that you get with being a person is personality… and has anyone said to you personality comes with experience? Well thats just it! you see people adapt to what they live with. On a personal comment i have been useing mac’s all my life and all ways have been and with that i have adapted to a mac way of life… in doing so i have adapted so much that i really can’t use windows to it’s full extent because i find the user-face hard to get round and difficult to adapt to (apart from when i was useing Microsoft office and other mac programs on it) .In doing so my first opinion of it was $%!$£ (i’m not saying it as i have a 18 (movie) rating)but you realise as you grow to understand the human world is that other people use windows all there life and they find macs as !%!$!.Such as at the top with the main article it says that vista has a better widgets (or gadgets) than osX , this is because you find having the widgets along in a side bar (oddly looking like the dock from osX) because you feel comfortable knowing that all your widgets are nicely in order along the dock- looking- thing, which is fine ,but i prefer the widgets of osX as you can feel free to put all of them in a way you want how you
want, which is entity my opinion!
Also feel that Microsoft introduced the dock thing for gadgets because of copy right from apple and thought they could get away with it by changing the way you use it,( which is my opinion), but you can’t blame them as you have to admit widgets are a really good idea it was just asking for Microsoft to get there grubby little hands on it (my opinion!).
Of course on long term really no ones better than the other. Each one hes there strong points e.g windows runs a large number of software and macs have a easy inter-face (in my opinion). And both have bad points such as windows get more bugs than a mac and mac finds it harder than windows to get all the software. if you have any problems AA me!
P.s try geting a mac with boot camp (thing to run windows on mac) gameing and easy user-face all in one!
i do it and look at me!! or better not
p.s.s is it that mac is more open to virus when windows is installed on it… keep me posted
Thanks for the review! I really enjoyed reading it.
While I’m not surprised by the heated debates it generated, I think you did a great job of trying to remain unbiased: you pointed out that the jury is still out for security and long-term ease-of-use. You pointed out that people who Have to use windows would use Vista, but that doesn’t prevent anybody else from happily choosing macs.
Some have accused you of not going “in-depth” enough, but it seems you went for quick first impressions and frankly, that’s what most users would do. Not everybody is a computer specialist.
What I think I’ve learned from your review is that MS has indeed made much-needed improvements to their system. Many, no doubt, inspired by the Mac interface. However, there are already many mentions of bugs. I don’t see how it is a problem if you don’t make in-depth listings though, anybody who would come across your article would no doubt have come across separate articles on the problems with Vista as well. Also, Macs do have some problems. My dad uses one and he’s sometimes annoyed at how some things work in OS 9 but not OS X.
In any case, Vista is still in its infancy. In the meantime, the Mac OS isn’t sitting still, either. If Vista starts to have better functionalities, I believe this to be a plus for both Windows users and Mac users: it just means Apple will have to work even harder to stay comfortably ahead. Its users benefit from this. What’s so bad about it? I don’t see what’s wrong with cutting Vista some slack (especially if you’re not buying it anytime soon XD ).
test
Why are you comparing an OS that was just released that has been in development for half a decade to one that has been around for years? Wait til OS 10.5 is released and compare to new OSs. Vista should be light years ahead of OSX but instead it is a copy with slight imprvements in some areas and bug filled in others. I would bet the new Apple OS will be far better than Vista, without all the bugs and crashes!!
@ Dave: And i bet even tiger is better than vista is…
True, Vista doesnt even run itunes properly or i can’t even install Battle for Middle Earth and some other games. over 70% of vista is a MAC .Come on ,Vista is just a copier – not a good one, cheap copier. and right, Vista has just been released , dont u think it’s unfair to compare a “more Advanced OS” that has been around for ages. Vista Interface is just an interface based on EYE CANDY ! Mac OS’s interfaces are all based on efficiency not EYE CANDY- you’ll get bored one day anyway. Vista is just a piece of LIES. Well, unless u want to hack ur self and install virus to nuke your PC. haha. Vista ,in fact ,is worst than XP.
It’s just the power of the jungle!
Apple copyed the mouse from a third party company (forgot how to spell the name sorry) prefecting it on their computers and then m$ take it and invent the right click…. then it goes on and on and on till no one realy cares, what, how who?
You see microsoft are business people… they come up with products to sell and sell is all they do.
They have know idears they just copy.. altar it till they say it’s there own.
Unlike apple who bring idears into there products as well as…
I mean if it wasn’t for apple they would never have the GUI, widgets, live search, smart folders…. ect
And yes you may say that microsoft’s computers can run some creative stuff.
Well thats just mad! … microsoft isn’t any where near good it’s the stuff that runs on it thats good… you see where i’m geting at?
I have enjoyed reading some of the above comments while sitting on my windows vista pc. And here is my opinion (sorry if my ideas on mac are outdated because the last system i have owned is 10.3 but i have used the others)
*Try doing any BASIC programming on a mac. It is rather hopeless
*How can you compare the hardware functions on two different os’s considering that windows has to operate with thousands of different hardware configs.
*I also challenge you to find a mac with the same functionality as a pc costing £500, for under £700.
*Software compatability makes pc to obvious choice for those who want their computers to have more functionality.
*What about doing any interface work with a mac?
Conclusion- A mac is ok if you want to check email, multimedia, internet, movie production. But lets face it, a pc can do all of these things and you get the added bonus of being able to program in assembler, basic and a lot more.
Please remeber that apple didn’t develop the unix kernel.
And, if you want to do any serious film of picture editing then you will probably need photoshop and premiere which are both available for pc anyway
Good review, though I have to say this is not my experience of Vista. In fact having been a Windows user for my entire IT career of 15 years, using Vista has actually driven me to get a Mac.
I am experiencing a whole host of issues, the slow delete and move, crashing with windows media, menu stability issues etc. Vista is actually stunningly bad, considering the time and money spent on it, and that XP is now extremely stable.
There have been lots of postings about, MS code being bad so the bugs cab drive the code forward, first release is needs SP1, teething issues etc.
Has anyone forgotten they are paying for this, and it ain’t cheap either.
No, I’m not a reformed Mac user, I still have XP on 2 machines, works great. I just need a machine that works, and does not need a super computer to delete a file or do basic functions.
The mac actually costs less to own. the weekly time spend on MS products is really getting annoying, specially if you travel as much as I do.
Lets hope vista gets better, in the mean time, I’m gonna get back to working, and not trying to fix PC problems, guess I’m gonna be a Mac person for a while
:)
I find many of the comments more informative than the original article, thanks for sharing everybody. I don’t want to debate the results, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I do question the choice of criteria for comparison. The percentage of people basing their purchase decision on speech recognition ability is low.
I want to point out a couple of trends I’ve noticed in this latest Mac vs. PC debate. First and foremost is that there continues to be a large number of new Mac users. People are converting from Windows to OS X in a big time way. I have never read so many conversion stories. The Intel based Macs have duo boot/virtualization options that allow XP, Vista and Linux run comfortably with OS X. OS X has matured and Vista hasn’t lived up to expectations.
There are critical reviews of Vista everywhere, some good, most are crap. The other thing I’ve noticed is that when anybody tries to say something nice about Vista, they get pounced on. Accused of being paid by Microsoft for their comments. Little credibility is given to anything positive being said about Vista. And to be fair, many of the positive experiences have been pretty lame, if not suspicious.
I have run a custom built pc that has never given me the slightest problem. If you know what you are doing, you should have no problem. I haven’t and my brother hasn’t.
Oh yeah, I have a classroom full of macs and they all freeze all the time… so do the ones in our math lab, so the district I work for has decided to build our new ESL lab using PCs because the schools running pc labs are having less problems from a productivity standpoint. The Mac lab will be for multimedia purposes and design.
For those that dismiss the market share argument, well, that’s fine but some statistics have shown that Macs are more frequently being exposed to security exploits, which is in direct correlation with its steady market increase. I don’t think it has anything to do with money, but the shear knowledge that by attacking Windows, a hacker or a virus would be more far reaching than attacking a Mac. Just like terrorist groups attacking as densely populated an area as possible to cause as much damage as possible in one shot, so seems to be the case on the technology war front. For terrorism, it would be inefficient to attack a small farming community killing 100 when they can kill thousands. Attacks on computers are nothing more than digital terrorism. It makes sense whether you want to see it or not.
Hey!
Ok read the new comments on this site… most of them have some really good points!
come with direct comment on yours when you’ve posted a few more.
Though I still have some bitching about windows that i’ll like to talk about.
The frist thing is firewalls.
For a mac user they just don’t need to be there…
( lack of viruses for the mac though may not be for ever as the mac population goes on a high rise)
Not that it’s a overal problem… it’s just good to know I don’t have to turn it off to play guild wars.
seconadly…
Start up.
I don’t know about you but mac is a hell lot more quicker to start up.
Maybe it’s just boot camp?
Though my mates PC has the same start up time as the one on boot camp.
P.S… you know your right about the basic on a mac… when ever I try to make something simple on a mac it turns out really pro!
Gess the PC really gets you what you want ( maybe six out of 1 year to et to a macs standard)
0_0
@ EA
We get the same problems at are school only with PC’s.
Pretty flash dells to. New as well. Runs XP
what types of Mac’s does your school normally use on average?
Goes to show.. computers have a phobia for school…. and so do the people.
reasons for getting a mac:
Mac > PC
reasons for not getting a mac:
mac price > Pc price
I can’t decide!
@ james
The mac is for whats it’s worth.
And anyways if your so sensitive about price still get a mac mini !
Goes to show there is no reason not to get a mac.
BTW a guy called g-wrath on you tube did a few of vidios on price that you would like to see.
0_-
Screw Windows Vista & MAC ! They both suck, Windows XP Pro 32 & 64 bit editions are far superior to Vista & MAC. If you can’t get XP Pro, then you should try to get your hands on Linux.
What makes windows pro any better than mac?
Though I admit though linux is really good
Started thinking about switching to Mac after trying Vista.
I have been using Microsoft products my whole life, starting with DOS and Windows 3.0 all the way through XP. I’m also an IT guy and have been doing Microsoft software development for years. I was happy with XP, but wanted to try the latest and greatest Windows Vista, which was hyped to be a major upgrade to XP, so few months ago I bought Vista Home Premium upgrade and tried it for about 1.5 month on my 2.4ghz dual core Intel Conroe machine. This was a terrible experience and I’m back to XP. I’ve had all the typical problems that other Vista users are reporting: files are slow to copy or delete, annoying security popups, very slow HDV and DV video playback (maybe due to Windows checking for DRM), problems accessing my network devices and remembering network passwords for my media server and file shares, navigating the start menu required to many clicks. The UI looked nice, but it couldn’t make up for all the faults. I felt like this was a step back from XP and reinstalled XP.
From that day I started seriously thinking about Mac and started reading Mac sites and blogs like these. I would always need a PC for my job related activities, but am thinking of making Mac my daily computer for web, photo, video, chat, etc. My hopes for the Mac are to offer me a stable, unobtrusive, user friendly consumer device that requires minimal maintenance. I was for the longest time hoping that one day we would have computers that work like other consumer devices such as VCRs, DVRs, refrigerators, etc. and that they wouldn’t require constant user intervention to deal with glitches, security, reinstalls, compatibility issues, etc. I know that Mac is also far from that, but am hoping it’s a lot closer than Windows. I may be wrong about this, and that’s why I haven’t bought mac yet, and am still doing my research.
Another very strong reason for considering the switch is Microsoft’s focus on putting DRM on everything, the implementation of Windows Genuine Advantage – as if I’m automatically a thief and need to periodically prove to Microsoft that I have legal copy of Windows. Apple on the other hand seems to be focusing on getting users new interesting products: cheap music downloads (potentially DRM free music), video downloads, AppleTV, iPod – in a nutshell very interesting consumer devices and services. Nothing is perfect, but at least it’s the move in the right direction.
In general, I’m realizing that life is short and I don’t want to waste any of it anymore by dealing with computer issues and figuring out what’s compatible with what. I’m more than capable to deal with tech issues, but I don’t feel like doing it anymore. I may not be able to escape that in my job (Microsoft development), but hopefully I can in my personal life. I don’t really care which company I buy from (Microsoft, Apple, …maybe Google one day :) ), as long as the product works.
Regarding John’s article,
he posted an opinion, just like I did in this post and you all did in yours. Opinions are usually subjective, just like many other things in life and people make purchasing decisions that way all the time. Often, people buy a house or a car or a t-shirt based on subjective opinion or impression and not based on comparison charts. I found John’s article an interesting opinion on the subject – weather I agree with it or not is besides the point. The value and significance of the article is no different than a conversation with my neighbor. I’m sure we wouldn’t have too many neighbors if we jumped on them for every opinion we don’t agree with – again, life’s too short.
Good luck everyone with your computer needs. The computer solutions are not perfect yet these days, but hopefully we’ll get there some day. A close competition race between MS, Apple, Linux community and others can only help.
Small wonder these OS Giants; love the never-ending drivel on the Net, about which OS
is Best. (Mac vs Windows), (Linux vs Windows), (Mac vs Linux) …. When in reality;
they are ALL quite insignificant. Buy Buy Buy the latest and greatest OS.
If the Operating System won’t run the users favorite app; then goodbye to the OS.
The OS is seldom the peoples #1st pick.
Mine are:
(1) Spectate Swamp Desktop Search (2) My Video Camera Software & My VB5.0 Search compiler,
(3) Net Browser, (4) Paint & NotePad, (5) Operating Systems, (6) PrintKey 2000, (7) games,,,
—————–
I’ve been an Apple fan for many years but I believe that Windows has always had more of an advantage over Apple with OSes. Just look at how many copies of the OS are sold. I think Apple are starting to show the ‘rest of the world’ (as much as I hate that) that they are making a decent OS system with a strong Linux base.
Two comparisons I would have liked to seen:
Hardware to run (and upgrade) to run a smooth OS. You have to remember than Vista won’t work on a lot of old PC’s yet OSX, whatever cat, will work on old machines. However you do miss out on the later benefits of various OSX’s if you’re running an old one.
The other comparison is the keyboard shortcuts etc. I find it easier to do stuff on the Mac than the PC (and expect the PC to do the same when I do it and then realise that I’m on a different machine!).
Apart from that, I thought the review was ok, but needed more to it…maybe.
Ur Evaluation sucks. Stop watching thru the windows , and just knock at the door son. That is where u will find true power with the power of UNIX not DOS, there is no comparison. Unix is used throughout the world, even in the military. The NT filesystem , along with it’s GUI is wannabe UNIX since it’s root ancestry with PC-DOS. Unix was using DOD-IP back then ,maybe u don’t remember that.
I’ve been using the latest Beta prelease of Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard for a week and it’s really nice with the new features. I would agree with many here on Mac and Windows. However, it just depends on your use and need for either system. So far Leopard has been great but networking in Leopard is more complicated or should I say unstable. My primary uses is in software & web site development and networkiong which of course Windows would be my preferred OS. However, using Exchange mail server for email in a Windows 2003 environment I have to give it up for Mac for more stability, better features, and ease of configuration. Ironically, Office 2004 for Mac and Office for Windows is developed by the same company but has better features on the Mac version. At Least Entourage vs Outlook does. In conclusion I like them both depending on my needs. I have a mixed Windows Server environment using a physical server and a virtual server with wired and wireless PCs…about 8 PCs(XP and Vista Only) and 2 Macs(Tiger 10.4.9 & Leopard 10.5). As I stated the latest Beta prelease of Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard was released to developers at the WWDC about two weeks ago.
I am a network admin in a large organisation (over 6000 workstations, more than 40 servers). We have both MACs and PCs. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. We have no exploits on either platform because our firewalls and protective software do their job (btw there are plenty of MAC exploits out there – you guys just aren’t looking the right places).
What is a problem in the computing world is getting MACs and PCs to play nice together on a corporate network. If someone could come up with a solution to that problem they would make a fortune.
I thought the article was OK. By the way, ALL reviews are opinion, that’s how it works.
I’m sorry for the author of this review but I’ve never read a so cheap an superficial comparison. Almost everything was based on the author personal appeal and no real motivation was given to any choice.
For example you say that vista wins on performance, but you mention also that it’s extremely slower if compared to it’s predecessor XP. You don’t mention that all professional application requiring openGL to run, they are 90% slower than if run on windowsXP, osX or linux…
Hum… but Vista wins on performance… yes, yes….
Sidebar over dashboard and Vista’s interface over OS X’s? what is this idiot smoking?
MacIt said “One thing that absolutely frustrates me about OS X and it’s like mind boggling they haven’t fixed this – the lack of a print selection function. There are ways around this require multiple steps. Windows – one click of the mouse. Windows has had the ability to do this for as long as I can remember and its available in nearly every single program that can print.”
Check out these two free “Print Selection” OS X services:
In reply to Gordon back in July ‘07, I really don’t understand the “print selection” comment. Are you talking about printing just what you have highlighted? If you are, then I could agree with you, but the links you made available in your next post made no sense to me; I couldn’t tell what those pages meant in relation to your post.
OK, the web form apparently didn’t like my angle brackets, so here goes again without them:
http://osiris.laya.com/
http://www.schubert-it.com/download/