 is a modulation scheme that is used widely in upcoming 4G standards of the future. But with wireless access gaining momentum, and the all-around arms race for bandwidth, 4G starts to make sense, in a crazy, crazy kind of way.</p>
<p>The idea of a next-gen, high-bandwidth capable phone sounded to these ears like the Zune Phone, so we did some poking, called some sources, and waded into the wonderful world of Zune. One thing led to another, and we’ve determined that there is a whole lot more going on at Bear Creek in Redmond than we figured.
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With 3G on the rise, 4G is still the far future. With popular providers like T-Mobile still struggling to put out their 3G networks, anything beyond is sci-fi. A little digging, however, and we found this press release from August of last year, in which Sprint/Nextel announced its plans to build out a 4G network based on the IEEE 802.16e mobile WiMax standard. The 802.16 standards use OFDM, the exact same modulation protocol as the Microsoft device in the FCC filing.
Beginning to get the picture, yes?
If this all fits together, it looks like MS is working on a mobile WiMax-enabled Zune Phone, which would have download speeds of up to 2Mbps, fast enough for the Xbox-to-Zune streaming we’ve heard about, and fast enough for just about anything else the Zune Phone might be used for.
So now that we know that the Zune Phone is real, and that it’s in development, what else can we say about it? Tons.
The first real news is that we can expect to hear an announcement from Redmond about it before March 17, St. Patrick’s Day, at which time we should learn the name of the device. At the same time, we should also learn other launch specifics, and here’s where it gets incredibly juicy; our source says that, pending FCC approval, the specter-like Zune Phone will hit the streets sometime in May, a full month before the iPhone.
No, really.
Our source says that an iPhone competitor has been in the works for a while, and the idea of branding it as part of the Zune ecosystem, from the brown color through the interface, came as a recent decision as a response to Apple’s iPhone. The source didn’t go into details about features, as they don’t know specifics—they’re not yet all finalized. But there is one thing our source says will not only separate it from other music phones, but from iPhone as well.
Without a doubt, the biggest root of contention with the Zune users isn’t the hardware (which is very good) or the marketplace (which is likewise awesome), but the lack of other users to share music with. The WiFi sharing capabilities were the unique feature that was supposed to set the Zune apart, but unless you had another user in the area with sharing turned on, it was wasted battery, even in airports or Midtown Manhattan. (I’ve still yet to find a single person to share with. - Blake)
The Zune Phone remedies this by allowing you to share music not via WiFi, but via WiMax, so that anyone on your friends list who is online can sample your music, and vice versa. By using the mobile WiMax network, you can be in New York and your friend can be in San Jose and you can send him that Shins song you like.
By taking the proximity limitations from an otherwise sound idea and reversing them macro-syle, Microsoft opens up the Zune experience to everyone, making the ecosystem reach from coast-to-coast. The Social, as they say, goes national. We love the idea, as it really frames the concept of portable social networking in a wide, wide light.
This is a lot of information, and the reader should keep in mind that any part, if not all of it could change, as from what we know, the Zune group is just being brought up to speed on the specifics of the device. Our sources are saying that some of the hardware has been in development for quite awhile, and that the idea of making it a Zune device is relatively new.
With the iPhone having been in the rumors stage for almost two years, it makes sense that MS would have started a response as a contingency. Now that iPhone is out, and Redmond knows exactly what it’s up against, it’s an relatively easier process to finish an alternative, and bringing it to the Zune team and its Gen-Y marketing is the icing on the cake.
Of course, much of this is conjecture, but it’s logical. What’s more, our sources have never let us down and are from diverse backgrounds involved with Zune from the get-go. This is a well-thought-out response to iPhone, works perfectly with MSN Live Spaces, as well as Xbox.
We’re not entirely sure yet how much of this is going to hit, but it’s on our radar, and we’re guessing that now it’s on yours, too.
Zune Phone hits FCC? [Market Watch]
I’ll believe it when I see it, but that will be a really nice device. Squirting songs to other Zune users across the country. That is what they need to really make it work.
Whew, if you remove the DRM from the table, there’s no reason Zune couldn ‘t squirt to any cellular device that can handle the streaming download in a reasonable time, even, say, an iPhone? I can see the future “I’m a Zune [PC] and I’m a iPhone [Mac]” commercials now…
Interesting times.
Zune phones can only talk to other Zune phones. You will be forced to wander the streets searching for another Zune phone user. “Welcome to the semi-social.”
After you’ve talked to your mom for three times, Microsoft puts her physically in a box and you have to pay to speak to her again.
Nice screen, though.
Quite a bit of speculation here. Of course if would be great if it were true.
Considering what I have heard about the power requirements electronic emissions from current Wi-Max spec hardware, I find the idea that they would try and shoe horn this technology into a handheld device a bit hard to believe?
Will Zune Phones be able to communicate with normal Zune players?
If even 25% of this fabulous information/speculation is true, a whole lot of Apple-Cult-Member journalists and bloggers will be humbled.
Gene from ZuneChannel.com
hope it doesnt LOOK like the zune
Now a 100,000 Vista developers have something new to work on! No wonder they can roll it out so fast.
Rob
Can’t wait to see it! =)
will the Zune phone need the genuine advantage stuff so it can phone home and announce MS that we are illegally using it?
Curious to see what MS does with the price on this. With the iPhone’s running $400 - $500, they could try to beat them to market and beat Apple’s pricing.
Which will hopefully start and ugly price war allowing me to buy my iPhone for a little less.
This will not go into effect quickly enough for me. Will take lots of critical time that I could be purchasing.
At least one confirmed feature: BSOD’s in the middle of calls.
Seeing as they haven’t even finished the specs on the device as the article states, I find it hard to believe the Zune phone will be out before the iPhone. Especially since Mac rumors sites have said the iPhone went into production in December. So somehow a phone that hasn’t even made it to manufacturing and hasn’t been given the blessing from the FCC is going to make it out by May? I don’t think so! What network are they going to run on? Just Sprint? Sprint’s protocol isn’t even GSM — It is CDMA which is a North American standard, not a world standard. Also, just because Sprint is going 4G doesn’t mean it is ready or even close to being available in all 50 states. I actually hope the Zune is 4g…. that way I can laugh at all the Zune users who can’t use their much hyped “social networking” feature because they aren’t in one of the 10 cities that launched with 4g. Good luck pZune
I wouldn’t say the Apple-Cult-Fanboi’s-Member Journalist/User group would care, but honestly, screw them and their closed minded selves. Apple could dig a pile of poop out of a toilet, add a logo and spray it with some old-spice, and every Mac enthusiast would blog about it for months on end until Steve unveils it to the clones.
Besides, isn’t style & expression about being an indvidual, not having the same cookie cutter device that everyone else does and actually being different? If you can’t customize you’re a clone!
The idea of a friends list is a bit to un-friendly seeing how you’d like to give users a “I gotta have this” reason. I’d like to see the friends idea broadened to include others with similar playlists, listeners who purchased this, also purchased this kinda setup. Or if a user matches up with several of your songs/tastes, you can browse their playlist and listen away….double that with some video, some mobile/ce tools and bam, I gotta have it!
How could it possibly be released in May? Sprint’s WIMAX network won’t even be up by then.
one word… Verizune!
So, being a Microsoft-cult-apologist is better? Microsoft DRM is better than Apple DRM? Duh.
That is quite possibly the most liberal use of the word ‘confirmed’ I have ever encountered. Your disclaimer that this is mostly conjecture is an inadequate disclaimer for your tabloid headline.
So in order to have style and expression you need to have a Zune? I think the device you carry your music on tells very little… but the music, movies, tv shows, and games you have on the device speak volumes. Personally, I just want a device that works and is easy to use — And it must be able to work on more than one type of operating system. That device right now is an iPod. The Zune can’t work on any other OS other than XP ( maybe it works on vista now )? How many different colors can you choose from on a Zune? 3. How many different iPods? 3, soon to be 4, completely different kinds. Not to mention each type has anywhere from 2 to 5 different colors you can choose from. Oh yeah, I don’t want to forget you can also help a good cause by buying a red iPod…. So not only can I have style and expression through color and the different types of media I store on my iPod but I can also help people who are suffering by purchasing certain types of iPods if I choose. How does the Zune trump the iPod ???? Hmmm…. I think your Zune argument DrBobGobot is horribly flawed.
It looks like Ol’ Bill is doing more than “thinking” about keeping up with the boys down in Cupertino.
A toast to Redmond on this one!
I agree with John S, this is a terrible headline. We knew just as much about the ZunePhone several months ago as we do now, and for CrunchGear to insinuate otherwise is pure linkbaiting.
io
My point wasn’t to get into a DRM discussion but since you’ve headed down that path, sadly enough for apple, ms is a bit better. Believe me I’m a fan of no DRM, but how that model functions seamlessly is not my goal in life.
Any DRM that closes itself off to a single device and a single player is extremley bad in my book.
This requires you to have Apple this, or apple that just to play your file. If you’re locked into using a song on one select device, with one piece of software, well that’s just not friendly usage is it??
I can use a multitude of media players with MS, I can use a slew of device players with MS, I have a greater possibility of spreading this to different machines/devices/phones/zunes/etc.
I can’t believe this post. People have already said it. There is no way this phone is coming out before the iPhone. There are no 4g networks up and running.
Competition is good, but MS can’t touch the iPhone. The Zune just sits on the shelves, the iPod moves. These phones will be the same way.
No need to have a Zune to be an individualist, just stray from being a carbon copy. The device you carry says a great deal about you, as well the content loaded on that device.
So Bill Gates was completely lying when he was asked this question by Steven Levy of Newsweek on Feb. 1 of 2007?
With Xbox and Zune, Microsoft has adopted an end-to-end approach, where you write the software, design the hardware and run the services. Will Microsoft now change its mobile-phone strategy and adopt an end-to-end approach, the way Apple has with the iPhone?
No, I don’t think so. People like different styling, media storage, capability [in phones]. The benefit we get from having lots of great hardware partners is pretty phenomenal. And our software can run on any one of those things.
The zune is just like the iPod for DRM. You can only use the Zune with the Zune Marketplace, Zune Software on a Microsoft only operating system. What you buy in the Zune Marketplace can not be played on any other device. MS is no better than Apple as far as the ecosystem is concerned…. MS is actually slightly worse. You still can’t use a zune on any other type of operating system…Please try and make a valid point with the zune. If you want to argue that the zune is better bring up some imperical data to show that it is. Just because you chose to buy a zune doesn’t mean your an individual. Tell me how the zune has improved your purchasing of digital content? Or maybe that you love the color brown and that was the deal breaker for you…. you hate primary colors but you love brown… Fine… that is a valid point. Trying to tell me your and individual because you chose a device other than an iPod is the most asinine reason I have heard in long time. MAKE A REAL ARGUMENT!!!!! Why are MS Fanboys some bloody blind!
will the zune phone also be shaped and look like a brick?
Me wonders how much is Microsoft paying Crunchgear to ” leak ” this vaporware…..
LOL and see our first Fan boyz show up.
Hi Dan.
Um, Wi-Max? In May? No chance, no how. May of ‘09, maybe, but definitely not this year, and probably not next year. Look at how quickly AT&T has been rolling out HSDPA — not quickly enough. Now, will Sprint build a Wi-Max network large enough to cope with a major product launch? I’m guessing no.
you know, i don’t understand why people feel so strongly about the zune. i also don’t understand why microsoft keeps making such crappy products. in reality the zune is ok but nothing really special.
I think you’re smoking dope. Really.
There is no mobile WiMax chip out there right now for small, handheld devices let alone a design ready for FCC certification.
The closest WiMax chip for this would likely be from Becem (Israel) or Intel and this is not even close to being ready.
OFDM implies 802.11n also. Google it.
If the speculation in this post is true, this will be an awesome device and could quickly secure MS a good foothold in marketshare for convergence devices.
I have a Zune and the device is fantastic. The interface is primo with aesthetics and usability far beyond the current iPod interface.
On a different note, I also have both Mac and Windows computers. More and more, I’m leaning towards Mac since Intel integration and virtualization. There are arguments on here by fanboys from each side.
- Zune can only be used on Windows OS. True. Let’s think about this for a moment. Various versions of Windows make up approximately 90% of O/S marketshare while Mac OS makes up around 4-5%. Mac users are very passionate about the Apple brand and the vast majority are already in bed with iPod/iTunes. Mactels can now run Windows OS via BootCamp or Parallels. Zune just dropped in November 06, so why would any savvy executive invest R&D dollars into supporting Mac OS (or any other) as a priority. I suspect in time that cross-platform functionality could become a reality but its likely very low on the priority list. Apple had to make iTunes cross-platform to gain enough marketshare to take the leading role. To date, Mac OS only runs on Apple..although I hear that will change in the next six months with new virtualization software from Parallels and VMWare.
- Zune is only offered in 3 colors and there is only one model. True. Other than the Nano and Shuffle (just available as of last week), other iPod models only have 2 color options. Zune is competing against the higher-end video models. Supposedly there are other colors (orange and pink) that will be available publicly in the near future. There is only one model as MS just entered this marketplace less than 4 months ago. When Apple entered the market, there was one iPod..no Nano..no Shuffle..no Video iPod. Realistically, MS probably planned for only one model at launch to gauge consumer feedback without investing heavily into production costs of several offerings. More models will appear in the future as MS finetunes its go-to-market strategy for the infant product line.
- Zune DRM is just like iTunes DRM. True. You can’t use songs from the Zune Marketplace on other devices without burning to CD and reripping as DRM-stripped MP3s. No DRM!! No DRM!!
- 4G seems a stretch at this time. But if possible, Sprint may be the exclusive carrier. This approach seems on track with Apple’s own exclusivity with Cingular. Let’s hope that MS unlike Apple will not strictly enforce price reductions, promotions and rebate offers from their phone offering. It would also be in the best interest of MS to make the exclusivity only 6 months rather than the 2-year agreement between Apple and Cingular.
- Will MS change its mobile phone strategy and adopt and end-to-end approach? True and False. MS will likely continue to support its third-party partners, like PlayForSure, via Windows Mobile while as developing their own end-to-end Zune line. Why close one channel to open another when you can continue to operate both revenue streams?
- iTunes is better than Zune Marketplace. True. There are two main reasons for this disparity. 1.) Zune Marketplace does not offer video content. Considering the Zune is a media player and not a music player, the lack of video content is a significant drawback. However, video content from sites such as YouTube and others can be easily converted to WMV via plug-ins and some third-party apps. But copyrighted content is becoming scarce in that environment. 2.) The points system is dysfunctional. Bottom line..ditch it. While these issues beset the Zune Marketplace, MS can make these improvements relatively easily when partnerships are made and their developers update the payment system. The device itself will still sync independently to any necessary changes in the Marketplace.
- You can help a good cause by buying an iPod (RED). True. However, the reality is that very little money makes it to the actual charities on these corporate promotions. There have been several investigations such as Yoplait’s Breast Cancer lids. If you really want to make a difference in a cause, get active, volunteer, and make a direct donation. To date, I have never seen anyone with an iPod (RED). Also, there is one significant flaw to this argument. The world’s biggest philanthropist…none other than Bill and Melinda Gates. Sadly, Steve Jobs is no where near the top of this list, nor is Apple. And Apple has been attacked by many environmental groups for the component parts in the iPod and Macs.
iPod/iPhone and Zune products each have their pros and cons. Rather than arguing over which is better or worse, the tech community should be rallying around features and developing ideas for future innovations. At the end of the day, both companies are just looking to make a buck from you, not win your undying love and affection.
Honestly, Microsoft was in this game at least 4 or 5 years ago. They started a beta service where you could login online and you would have a circle of friends who would then form a kind of pool of music, and you could all choose which songs to listen to. Someone will have to help me out with the name of that service, but I believe the problem was that they tried to sell it as an instant messenger service and it simply wasn’t. I always thought the idea was cool though, and a mobile extension of a service like that would simply be amazing…
Now, what was it called?
Why don’t I believe this?
1) US is behind the world in mobile technology - you’ve hardly got 3G yet, let alone 4G.
2) The Zune is a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat, I doubt MS would be developing a phone from the ground up without a hardware partner
I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.
The music company will not be allowing microsoft to send music though the internet to any one. They had a hard enough time getting them to agree to do it with the original Zune that only had 3 days or 3 plays. So web based sharing…highly unlikely but feel free to dream.
If MS comes up with such a device that can play/share songs using WiMax and does voice calls and if it costs
i think I know where this phone came from. A friend worked for 3 years on a project that sounds very familiar to what MS is coming out with. He and I talked about his project after the iPhone was announced. He was blown away by the iPhone and its integration while being pretty convincing that the project he worked on did not succeed so well. If his guess and mine are correct, then this will be about as good a competitor to the iPhone as the Zune was to the iPod.
Sorry CrunchGear, you were scooped… http://yesihaveone.blogspot.com/2007/02/zphone-zune-phone-picture.html
Sorry to piss on the MS fanboys parade, but WHAT AN ABSOLUTE PILE OF BLOODY FUCKING CRAP !!!
“Zune Phone” LOL! That’s got as much chance of succeeding as a fucking ice cube in a volcano. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to remember just how REALLY shit of a failure the Zune is, has been and will be.
Gizmondo 2 - here we come!
webonics … Correction: Zune Marketplace DRM is compatible with all other PlaysForSure devices. (Not an “advertised” feature, obviously.) It’s just that the Zune device is tied to the Zune Software and Zune Marketplace. I use a Creative Labs Zen V, too… Zune stuff syncs to it with WMP 11, no problem.
In my opinion, whichever company gets their heads out of their asses and realizes that their DRM’s on every fucking thing this is only hurting them will win. If microsoft got rid of the 3 day drm on sharing imagine how much cooler that would be. Maybe there actually would be people to share with. Imagine if Apple took microsoft’s idea and fixed it, if they implemented wireless sharing and no limits on it. DRM’s are simply bad for everyone, nobody wins, I hoped that 2 billionaires would be smart enough to figure this out but apparently its taking them a while.
>>At least one confirmed feature: BSOD’s in the middle of calls.
I have a PocketPC Phone and it doesn’t BSOD ever. Jackass.
If Apple products are so great, why aren’t people talking about how great they are rather than how much Microsoft sucks?
The reason is that they know they’re destined to lose. Functionality and open platforms win over fancy smoke and mirrors.
Comeon Microsoft…give Cisco a call. A few concessions and you’ve got yourselvf a device named the iPhone! An ther ewould be NOTHING that Apple can do about it.
This is what Microsoft does best: Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. When MS lacks an actual product, the best they can do is plant the idea of a future end-all, be-all product in the minds of consumers. In this way, they maintain a level of hesitation in purchasing a competitor’s product — namely the Apple iPhone. This is pure bullshit. Even if Microsoft comes out with their own piece of hardware and an interface that is even a hit of what the iPhone delivers, it won’t be this year.
Learn lessons from the past: Microsoft rarely delivers on FUD.
RARELY EVER.
I cannot agree more with webonics. The first ipod was bulky, and looked like it belonged on the side of a building as a brick. The zune is the same way. With MS’s unlimited supply of cash, and there ever growing fan base, the Zune will be a sleek small device that rapes the competition hands down. As it is now MS says that by the end of 2007 100 million users will have moved to Vista. Apple hasnt even gotten there ipods to work with Vista. Lets see those ipods become dust collectors while users move to the newer fancier, compatible zunes. To even think that apple has a chance up against MS is a joke. You do know that MS controlls the life of Apple right. All Bill has to do is say, hey we dont want to support you anymore, and you guys are done. No more office, no Vista support for Bootcamp, no one buying your products. MS is doing you a favor by keeping your favorite waxed and polished piece of shit alive. It took MS 5 years to build vista, and it looks 90% different. Every damn release of OS X looks the fucking same. They add a couple updates and a few new programs, as well as some new gui features and sell it to you again and again. MS calls these updates and patches you can get them free from microsoft.com. OS X 10.4 to 10.5 is just a service pack. Also free from MS. Apple thinks that they have to hoard there technology, aironet, just go out and buy a fucking linksys router. Half the damn price and twice the functionality. Innovation isnt a white box that is shiny and see through, its what makes your day to day life easier and more convenient. Since MS Windows, Server, and Office are on 90% of home and work users PCs then I think that shows you who is winning.
Good lord… the MS Zune fanboy spotted in the wild… they really do exist!!! …. Hang on… Mr Balmer, is that you again?
Engadget debunks the whole thing anyway, so maybe you fanboy idiots can stop your blathering now. At least until the next announcement.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/10/debunk-microsoft-files-for-zune-phone-with-fcc-probably-not/
This rumor just got debunked on Engadget