I’m trying to like the Wii. I tried my hardest to love Super Paper Mario. But this image essentially sums up my opinion of the game, the platform, and the other games available, including Zelda. Please, Nintendo. Please. Stop it. Treat me like I have a brain. I’m so tired of “whimsical” being equated to “mythic” and “classic characters” becoming an excuse for poor game play and foolish stories.
Nintendo focuses on babies. Straight up. If they could get the controller past the cervix, they would. Their games are long, complex, and needlessly convoluted, adding little to story or satisfaction. Take the original Legend of Zelda for example. Your mission was to kill Ganon. Fair enough. But what did you have to do to get there? Burn down tree after tree. Push tombstone after tombstone. Bomb walls that didn’t look like they could be bombed. It was all “there,” in plain sight, but the gameplay was muddled by needless and unchallenging complexity. This was fine for the NES, but it’s not fine almost two decades later.
Fast forward to Super Paper Mario. The story is as linear as Half Life but not nearly as compelling. Go here, do this. Go there, do that, come back here, watch some wizard talk for forty minutes, go there. Do that again. The puzzles are obvious to all but the most hopeless gamer — and I consider myself a hopeless gamer — and the side quests, which include card collecting, are about as exciting as watching paint dry. But John! I like those things! you’ll screech. Fine, but I’m pissed.
I played a few dozen hours of Halo 3 with a friend last weekend and I had a good time. It isn’t rocket science, this Halo franchise. A few cool weapons, some cars, some next gen graphics. I do not have time to collect all 500 ants in the Twilight Princess world. Trust me. I have a mortgage. Give me a game that makes me forget I’m playing a game. Give me something with life rather than canned specifying by some poorly rendered stone monsters and annoying kids. I want to advance the plot through my own actions, not through the actions of non-player characters. Give me some good graphics and fun puzzles. Sure, that doesn’t always make a great game — Prey, anyone? — but at least you have the basic pieces in place. If you want to make party games, make party games. Just stop pissing on my fond memories of Mario and Zelda and make a game that doesn’t suck.
Super Paper Mario, It’s not me. It’s you. [IRSerious]
I think that you are too stuck up in your own point of view to really contribute anything useful with this piece. So you don’t like Zelda and Mario, and you love Halo. That’s fine. But why should we care? You are just one individual with a relatively unpopular opinion.
I really don’t care what one insignificant individual on the internet feels about the current state of video games. However, I do care a bit about what people in general feel. Next time, please be a little more insightful.
click
click
click
click
click
click
click
That’s all you do in Paper Mario.
Wow. You are completely stuck up. Complaining about something that the majority of people disagree with and trying to pass it off as fact? Twilight Princess has poor gameplay?! It’s called a quest, and last time I checked, that’s what you do in Zelda games. You don’t have to like them, but honestly, you sound as though you’re 12, whining about something that other people enjoy. Super Paper Mario is also a quest, and contains alot of dialogue. You don’t have to like that, but other people do, so stop whining.
Biggs: Agreed. In contrast, Oblivion on the PS3 is a world I escape to. There, you have freedom.
Yes. Exactly. good point, JP. Oblivion is all engrossing. Zelda is a straight line with bug collecting.
Your example of Zelda being full of tedious gameplay shows what a shallow and superficial view you have of video games. Designers don’t make games for people with severe ADD and who think that their lives are so important that they can’t “waste” a single second doing something which isn’t immediately rewarding.
The original zelda is one of the most perfect games ever created. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that game. I can’t speak for Paper Mario because I’ve never played it. I do know however that is a highly rated game, and considering your ignorant opinion on zelda, I think we can assume it’s not PM, it’s you.
Strange – I don’t hear anyone critiquing the Sony focused Final Fantasy which have tedious (200 lightning jumps anyone) actions and stories that sometimes you wish you could merely click through (FFX jumps to my mind – mostly because I wanted to kill my own main character every time he wined through another FMV).
I think this isn’t a Paper Mario critique as it as much of a genre critique – which is fine, but I doubt should be laid at Nintendo’s feet.
John,
I totally understand what you’re trying to say, and I think a lot of it just comes down to personal preference. I can see why you feel the way you do, and I don’t think you made any really invalid points… so I can’t really rip on you for this. On the other hand, like Rob said, there are plenty of other games that are far worse in the areas you described than SPM and TP. I’ll just take this article for what it is — your opinion on a couple of games that you had higher expectations for.
For the record though, I do enjoy playing Super Paper Mario and I loved Twilight Princess.
Look, I don’t want to sound like a jerk or anything, but with your long-winded complaint about every game being too “complex” and how Halo 3 isnt rocket science, just the same FPS in hi-def, you are kinda giving off this sort of image:
“Durr durr, me shoot, me kill. Me play same game with shiner graphics, reading and sidequests are confusing! Durr!”
Mainly what annoyed me was the “A few cool weapons, some cars, some next gen graphics.” part. I am actually very sick and tired of games being very similar to each other. I am tired of “(insert popular franchise here) XXXXXXIIIII” I am tired of every game practically being a clone of another game. I want to see ORIGINAL games out there. If the characters and world isnt original, at least let the gameplay and graphics be!
I want games like Katamari Damacy, Okami, Dead Rising, Exit, Mercury, Gurumin, Odin Sphere…. games that are different, not a standard FPS thats overhyped or the 10000th sequel in a series.
Dont get me wrong, I am not putting down Halo, but I am tried of the hype. YES, it is a good game, YES, I played 1 and 2 and enjoyed them, and will get 3, but it is definately overhyped for a standard FPS. I am also tired of the endless sequel after sequel eventually driving the game franchise into the ground. God of War 1? Great game! God Of War 2? Even better!….. God of War 3 and PSP announced. Those will probably be good, but if it keeps going by the time we hit God of War 8 people will be sick and tired of it.
Companies have got to learn to let go. They took a chance and made a good game, great! They made a small franchise, super! Now…… they are too afraid to take another risk and pump out game after game of the same franchise until people are sick of it. If they don’t want to let go or its a mascot character, then at the very least do something new, if Mario now still played like Mario in the NES days but with shiner graphics people coudlent care less about the new game.
A couple weekends ago, we took our Wii to my 84-year-old grandmother-in-law’s house. This is a lady who who has never touched anything more exotic than a remote control or a cordless phone. We had a blast playing Wii Sports with her. She figured out how to play right away. That’s what the Wii is all about to me…fun family time. That said, I can’t wait for more games. Nothing would make me happier than a pro tennis game. My favorite Wii game so far is Super Swing Golf. It’s cutsie, but challenging.
out of all three console i hate Xbox the most. bad controls. trying hard to create good games but always a copy cat from ps or nintendo games. xbox is for people in US who gets fooled by their marketing strategy. that junk don’t sell in other countries where people can appreciate quality and gaming. with such a short gaming history, it’s nothing compare to the nintendo who created this whole video gaming from scratch. and wii is something nintendo is reinventing from their own invention. microsoft can go ahead and copy it again. just like how windows copy from apple computer.
When people talk about the wii the words cutesy and fond memories spew out of there mouths. That’s the demographic Nintendo was trying to target and they hit it with a bull’s eye. These are the same people that couldn’t play any FSP or survival horror game without having nightmares. They couldn’t hold a controller if there lives depended on it, in other word they lack any skill whatsoever (besides swinging a stick in front of there faces). There the people who call Nintendo “innovative” when it’s just a stick with motion sensing. The reason why they say this is because they can finally play a game that gives them the false impression that they have some type of skill. That all those years of swapping flies have finally paid off.
XBox360 is a computer sold in the video games department. Playstation 3 is a big, expensive, shiny box. Nintendo is, nowadays, nearly the only video game company coming up with all-new ideas. Revolutionizing how to revolutionize. They just want you to have fun. That’s it. Fun. So you don’t HAVE to “collect all 500 ants in Twilight Princess.” Just do what you want with it and have a good time. (There are only two ants in the game, by the way.) You don’t like how Super Paper Mario turned out? Fine, then I guess it’s not your kind of game.
Now let’s sum up all you said up there. Shall we? Paragraph One: You have a brain, and you’re tired of….excuses for bad games? Paragraph Two: You’re not a baby, and you dislike The Legend of Zelda. Paragraph Three: You dislike Super Paper Mario, and you’re a hopeless gamer. Paragraph Four: You like Halo, you have a mortgage, and you want good graphics and fun puzzles. A little extra: You say you don’t want complex games, yet you complain that “Nintendo focuses on babies.” How does that work again?
John Biggs you are very thick in the head. Honestly. Like, I don’t mean to insult you but you just are. I don’t think you even read what you write. Heck, I don’t think you even think when you write. You contradict yourself several times without even realizing it. If you are trying to diss Nintendo, at least do it right rather than come off as stupid and moronic. Video games shouldn’t be used to prove how manly one is. It’s a freakin’ video game.
Basically I think you are trying to get some desperately needed attention by writing something obviously controversial.
Zelda etc. are classics – they where essentially a treasure hunt – that is what made them fun – oh, and if you find all the cool stuff, you get to do find other weapons etc… that was the fun of the game. If your not a fan of RPGs, that is fine, but to each their own game type… as for me, I love RPGs, can’t stand shoot-them-up games, too boring. You must absolutely hate final fantasy games John…. you think zelda is tedious!
Jon
the games are made for babies, yet they are convoluted and too complex???? How can you say they are geared toward babies, yet they are too complex? If that was the case then Nintendo obviously wouldn’t be experiencing the success that they are.
silverwolf seems blissfully unaware that the Wii has Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles and Manhunt 2 coming out for it… and of course, the GameCube had the previous Resident Evil games, Eternal Darkness, Killer 7, …
I never owned a Nintendo system before the GameCube, so it wasn’t happy childhood memories brought me to the system, it was simply good games.
As for the original rant… John, since you obviously don’t like action adventure games or RPGs, why the heck do you keep buying them? I mean, I lost interest in FPSs after Quake, when the trend became ever better graphics and ever less plot and intelligence. But I don’t whine about how crap FPS games are, I just don’t buy or play them. There are people who like the things, and that’s fine with me.
And if you don’t have time for lengthy games any more, why on earth did you buy Twilight Princess? It’s not like it was some big secret that it’s an epic length adventure (50-60 hours for an experienced player, plus sidequests, which I mostly skipped). Sure, the plot’s pretty linear: even though you have a lot of freedom to wander the world, there’s always a next thing you ought to be doing. That’s true of most graphical adventures. Again, if you can’t deal with that, don’t buy adventures.
@Cyber Akuma
The Wii has absolutely no new games. No system does really. They are merely ports of successful games that have been proven to sell.
I don’t understand what the point of trolling a blog post is. (Andrew, Ray, James Merin). You guys really didn’t have anything but opinions to back yourselves up either. This is a blog post John in no way suggested that it was fact. He implied several times that this was his own opinion.
Besides, it is known very well that Super Paper Mario has lengthy talk scenes. I’m not saying that makes it bad.
John
you can do far better than this post, I could pick 2 crappy games on a PS3 or 360 and write a similar thing if I wanted to as well, any one can slant a story this way.
There’s a broad variety of games on the Wii covering the full spectrum of gameplay if you’d care to look. It’s a great platform. End of the day sales figures speak far more strongly than any trashtalk at Crunchgear.
Cyber Akuma:
The reason I’m tearing him a new one is because this page showed up as a news article on news.google.com. When I surf for news articles, I expect to read more insightful things than this. And yes, I hear what you’re going to say. Maybe Google is at fault in this case.
HALO3 is a poor game! Because the console limitations don’t have competition in fps with another home consoles. All PC-shooters are better ten times then halo3. Counter-strike is better then Halo3, FEAR combat is better then HALO3, Unreal is much better then HALO3. I can say more than 30 games better than HALO3. BUT Nintendo games, Yes they make great game! I’m and many friends prefer the Nintendo Wii at the place of 360. The sales say all! If the Nintendo is worst why the sales only rise? People are plaing and people have fun. Heheheh 360 is going down and Wii is the winner, you like or not!!!
You state that the original Legend of Zelda’s “gameplay was muddled by needless and unchallenging complexity”, but then go on to request that Nintendo “…stop pissing on [your] fond memories of Mario and Zelda.”
So did you like the original or is just the latest attempt to discredit the console that’s making it hard for Sony execs to sleep at night?
They’re called RPGs, or puzzle/adventure games with RPG elements. You apparently don’t like them. Many people do, yet you fail to realize that. Stick to your shooters. Leave the complicated games to us babies.
@ silverwolf
“The reason why they say this is because they can finally play a game that gives them the false impression that they have some type of skill. That all those years of swapping flies have finally paid off.”
funniest thing i’ve ever read. what is skill? twitching your little finger faster than the other guys. lol. i could see it now…..
[sports report]
WHO is more skilled? the finger twitchers or the fly swatters. tune in next time for gaming sports… ha ha ha
John,
I’m with you on the Wii games – to a point. I agree that the type of games for the Wii is limited right now – what’s the fun of having one(!) and buying games for $45 or renting for $8 if none of the games really let you just play, there seems to be lots of filler. We just purchase Paper Mario and one of the things we noticed was all the dialog – tons of it – I’m a fast reader so I can whip through it quickly, and it’s a simple enough game that it’s ok to do that – but my husband sits for an hour and only makes it to Chapter 1-2. BUT – it is a Nintendo system after all. For years they have really marketed to the younger gaming crowd – and with the Wii, it’s not about graphics – or being a next-gen powerhouse – it’s about controls during game play; Providing a different type of play. My favorite Wii game is still Wii Sports – bowling mostly.
The Wii is what it is – and hasn’t promised to be anything more than that. I think most of us knew that when we purchased the system. But I do hope that developers can start to target older gamers, and really try to make it more worth our while (and money!)
@silverwolf
“…They couldn’t hold a controller if there lives depended on it, in other word they lack any skill whatsoever…”
PC Gamers everywhere are laughing at you.
I agree with your assessment of the Wii. While millions of fanboys will rush to defend it, those gameplay contrivances that they claim pass for innovation are getting a little bit tired.
Although in one way you are right, and some Nintendo games can be considered for a lower aged audience, you are really just too biased to make your opinion on something like this. I mean you say you liked the original Mario and Zelda but then you go and say that Zelda’s puzzles weren’t very complicated and you also say that a game needs good graphics AND fun puzzles. You haven’t really organized or even thought about your ideas carefully enough and it seems that you only wrote this for a Ps3 and Xbox 360 loving audience. Sure this is the opinion of ONE person but it still makes me smile when I see some one so stuck up.
The Wii is a novelty. At least until it has games developed for it. Not just ports with a new controller.
Let’s not forget what happened with the PS2 it was also overpowered and had this unnecessary thing called “DVD” but we all know that the PS2 had outrageous sales later on. We need to wait a year or two before deeming the PS3 a failure.
I will admit that Nintendo is a bit enamored with the collection side quests and slightly tedious actions. I thought Zelda was a blast, but that’s only my opinion, just as you have yours. Of course, I didn’t even think about collecting those bugs. Get one bug, get my wallet, get outta here.
As long as you have a Wii, check out Metroid Prime 3 on August 20th. This game looks to me to be the Wii’s salvation. The series is known for blowing past supposed ‘graphic limits’ on the gamecube with Prime. The story is a bit cliche but the gameplay looks good and it seems like you have a bit more control in the game. Just a thought.
@ Wiivolution: You put into words what I’ve thought of Microsoft since they first entered the gaming business. I just never actually took the time to think of how to put it into words.
@DeoWulf: Metroid Prime 3 could be Wii’s salvation? I wasn’t aware that the Wii and PS3 had suddenly switched positions in the console wars. Anyways, even if the Wii DID need any “salvation,” games like Super Smash Bros., Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn, SM Galaxy, and too many others to name will always be there getting people to buy the console. As if that wasn’t enough, Nintendo’s still working on new features to add to the Wii. Honestly I see the Wii’s future being alot brighter than the PS3’s or XBOX 360’s. For example, just imagine when the Wii’s VC begins to have a whole library of choices to download, when developers finally begin to master the Wii’s motion controlling, and when more connectivity with the DS begins to happen and you can download things like game demos and trailers onto it.
And those are just a FEW examples.
@ John Biggs: Ahem, I would just like to say that I think your opinion is complete and utter BS. No, actually I KNOW it is. You’re obviouslly just a Nintendo hater, cause you went with the crowd like a stupid little moron and bought the $600 PS3. Now your trying to make something out of it, by bashing the console and company that have most beaten your pathetic console down. Obviouslly you’ve never even played Twilight Princess, so shut up about it. It’s not “500 ants,” it’s only 12 pairs of different types of bugs. As for the Paper Mario screenshot, I’m willing to bet anything, that you just found that on the web. No way a mindless gamer such as yourself figured out how to get to that part in the game. Now I’m not going to go through and argue with every idiotic statement you made, but you obviouslly don’t have a Wii and you obviouslly need to get a life.
Once again people pull out the generic terms from the semantic field of gaming such as ‘hard core gamer’. Honestly, such generic terms are made to make people who own the PS3 and Xbox 360 feel superior to the wii because thats the only one up they will ever have.
I play Wii alot, and i feel i am more hard core than most the people here. I like Zelda, mario, and the rest, and i feel shoot em ups is not a hard core genre as most the gameplay is just ‘fluff’. What is so hard about going from location A to B, shooting 20 people and pulling out a supreme weapon? Super Paper Mario story is not convulted it is planned, and planned games have more effort and thought behind them then any shoot-em-up.
People who play Zelda are hard core, not all these millions of people who play Gears of war online..,
Listen. What I was saying is that the things that worked back on the NES don’t work in an environment of improved expectations. I could handle burning down bushes and stuff in Zelda simply because it was the closest to complexity they could get at that point with the hardware available. Now, however, I have to do the same thing with better graphics and much longer gameplay.
http://crunchgear.com/2007/05/18/polar-bears-and-the-art-of-interface-design/
Read that. In terms of a modern gamer’s expectations, the Wii is deeply rooted in a tradition but, at the same time, supplants that tradition with alien additions that essentially bastardize the classics. Don’t give me the same thing over and over again, just with different dialogue.
I’ll admit – there are some parts of Twilight Princess that are breathtaking. But those are marred by a poorly written story. Let’s call it the “what the hell is a horse doing in the jungle” phenomenon. This phenomenon happened in Snake Eater on the PS2. I LOVE the MGS series. I’ve played every one since the original Metal Gear. But the story went off the deep end of credibility when suddenly there are horses in the jungle and the Commies have super death dealing robot technology in 1964.
The Wii platform and user interface are great. It’s compact, fun, and cheap. But the games are ridiculous. Maybe Metroid 3 will kick my ass, but as of right now I just can’t bring myself to turn the damn thing on.
^^Again, an unpopular opinion. Stop wasting your time.
Well, your view is more opinion than fact, so it is very difficult to debate seriously. I will say this: PS3’s price point is ridiculous!! What was Sony thinking?!?! $600?!?! Are you kidding me?? Does that sound like something that anyone other than rich kids (or their rich parents) or financially comfortable adult gamers will buy (and I really think these are the only people who are buying them at this point)? I don’t care how great the graphics are. I would like to play the PS3 eventually, but I would probably buy a laptop first, or any MYRIAD of other things that cost $600! No one brings it up but that is killing Sony and they know it. Unfortunately I don’t think they would be able to sell it at any more of a loss than they already do.
Regarding the Wii,…the games may not be up to some people’s standards, but that really is only half the attraction to the system. The way in which it lets you interact is huge. And its potential hasn’t even been realized yet. Forget Wii sports..FPS’s, any games involving weapons, sports games,..really anything changes when you intuitively move your arms and hands instead of mashing 4,000 buttons. There will be many cooler titles coming out for that system I assure you. The developers already see where the market is and are adjusting course quickly. I for one am looking forward to see what kind of cool games they come up with that use the versatility of the wiimote.
I was attracted to the article because it had an opinion on the Wii, and I used to want to buy one.
The article was too short, and made a bash at the first zelda.
I’m sorry dude, but the first zelda was flawless. Blowing up walls that didn’t seem like they could be blown up was awesome because it allowed you to learn the game intimately.
Anyway, the fighting was awesome and the plot was simple, yet awesome. It was generally awesome.
The problem with Nintedo is as you said — they market their games for babies.
Which is ridiculous. It wasn’t until I was 7 years old that video games really appealed to me. Before then, you should probably be spending time with your parents and going to places like zoo’s, parks, and day care/school so you can develop properly.
I realize nintendo probably thinks if they target babies then when they grow up they’ll be loyal to nintendo. But, they’re wrong. The only way kids are going to be nostalgic of current nintendo is if it was badass like old nintendo.
Who the hell is nostalgic about the atari 5400?
I think what gets me about an article like this is that it doesn’t really SAY anything. Your complaints about Zelda and Super Paper Mario are basically just complaints about the fundamental elements of those genres/games.
I could turn around and say something about Halo along the lines of “Think about it, in Doom you just wander around shooting mindlessly. That may have been fine for DOS, but now on the 360 I play Halo and it’s the same old formula. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. I just don’t have time to shoot all these guys. Give me something that makes me forget I’m playing a game…blah, blah, blah”. Is that really a fair assessment of Halo? Of course not, not anymore then your bitching about hunting stuff down in Zelda.
I’m going to suggest something–and it may be a crazy something–maybe there’s nothing wrong with you OR Zelda/Super Paper Mario. Maybe you just don’t get along and it doesn’t have anything to do with one or the other of you being broken.
I’m playing through GTA IV right now and getting kind of bored, but I don’t really think it’s because GTA is a bad game. It’s just not quite my kind of game. That’s cool. I can live with that.
P.S. Babies don’t read…seriously, they don’t, so I don’t really get how reading makes something for babies. I like reading…there are never any bad voice actors to deal with.
P.P.S
Also, you guys need to stop telling him he shouldn’t voice his opinion because it’s unpopular. Only a fool dismisses something just because it isn’t popular.
@Ray
What the hell does it being an “unpopular opinion” have to do with the credibility argument.
I’m sorry but I’m sick of Nintendo Rehashing the same stupid game with a few new gimmicks tacked on to make it different. Personally, I think the area Nintendo games excel at, is in the handheld department. Their games are perfect way to distract yourself when your not at home, especially games like Fire Emblem.(which has, as of late, been made for just the Nintendo consoles. However, a DS one is FINALLY on it’s way.)