All About Linux 2008: How CrunchGear’s Linux Week made me hate Linux
- March 28th, 2008
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- 28 Comments
My feature for this week was to be “Linux rocks your Windows box” or something of the sort. Great, I thought. I’ll take Wubi for a spin, see how it stacks up against a partitioned install of Ubuntu, and search around for other ways of making Linux apps work in a Windows environment. Fun and informative!
But it’s just my luck that things wouldn’t go my way. Or rather, luck had nothing to do with it. Because Linux was out to get me.
Now, I’m no slouch in XP, but I’m like a newborn babe with Linux aside from a little toying around with Ubuntu 6 on my MacBook Pro some time ago. I did my best to make these things work, and to be honest if I couldn’t do it then most of the people I know and certainly nobody in my family could even get close. To be sure, these problems will not occur for everyone, but the fact that my every attempt to make this happen was thwarted on a healthy, normally-configured machine is pretty discouraging to me.
I started with Wubi, because I heard it was the simplest and easiest way to get Linux on your box. If it worked for me, that would have been absolutely true. First, I managed to download an old version of Wubi. It does not differ visually from the new version and unless you know what version you should have, it would be very easy to stick with this one. My mom doesn’t prefer herons over gibbons, in fact living in the Northwest makes her a fawn fan.
In any case, the installer started right up, was configured in a matter of seconds (though the helpful tooltips permanently disappeared for some reason - what if I don’t know what Kubuntu and Edubuntu, etc. are?), and an ISO started downloading immediately at a high speed. I made coffee and when I came back it was ready to restart. So far, so good. And when I restarted (after setting my mobo BIOS to take over USB functionality, lucky I knew how), I got the setup screen, which hung at the first step, recognizing the drives. It tried again and again, but died the true death when I didn’t feel like waiting another hundred seconds for a retry. I looked up the problem online, apparently there is a motherboard problem with P35s or something. The only workarounds involve physically disconnecting your DVD drive, or adding something to the startup config that slows certain activities to a crawl.
During one of probably five reinstalls, I noticed that the ISO it had downloaded was labeled “AMD64″ and I have a Core Duo. Cursing, I downloaded the latest i386 version and replaced the ISO and reinstalled. Upon restart, it had renamed the ISO to AMD64, raising a number of questions about compatibility, accessibility, and just how they expect anybody but the most dedicated to try to make this thing work. Threw Wubi out the window.
Next up, Ubuntu LiveCD. Less performance, but guaranteed compatibility, right? Nope - aside from having no autorun function on the CD to prompt unknowing users to start up and boot from the CD, the LiveCD also failed to work on my system. A similar problem appeared to stop it from communicating with my SATA drives. Apparently the issue has something to do with the motherboard’s ordering of the drives - the solution was as simple as reorganizing the drives and reassigning IRQ numbers. So simple! So easy! Ubuntu LiveCD out the window.
A little googling revealed the interesting andLinux, an actual in-windows Linux system that, instead of emulating, actually runs a ported full Linux kernel inside of Windows and runs stuff semi-natively. The CD-sized download includes a full office suite and other useful programs, and there’s a minimal option too if you only want to get some basic stuff through Synaptic. Here, then, was a solution that could not fail.
I installed it on my office computer. Firstly, it slowed things to a crawl, I know not why. Second, it would not run any of its programs due to being unable to connect to the virtual network device it had created. I decided to try it at home, where I implemented yet another forum-suggested workaround: disabling the network device, manually stopping the kernel service, then re-enabling the device and restarting the service. And I’d only have to do this every time I started the computer.
Still, I thought, why not if I have access to all these great Linux apps? So once I got the thing connected, I opened up Synaptic and selected a few cool things - Amarok, KMplayer, and a few more, and confirmed their download. And it wouldn’t connect. And when I googled it, my internet was dead. Because it had reconfigured my real NIC somewhere along the line. Not okay. andLinux out the window.
As far as I’m concerned, that’s three strikes. I don’t mean to say that these programs suck - quite the opposite, they seem excellently done, but the fact is that I ran into system-crippling problems immediately with every one. If that happens to one out of a hundred people who want to try it out, that kind of negative word-of-mouth info will start to fester.
I recommend trying all the tools I just mentioned. They’re free, they’re powerful, and they are easy - in theory. But the gates are closed for me, which is too bad because I really wanted to try this stuff out! When I spend hours reinstalling, rebooting, and dredging forums for unofficial fixes and still can’t get it to work, I think I’m justified in harboring a little bitterness. It doesn’t have to be that way for you, though. Maybe you will succeed where I failed. Only one way to find out.
Yeah, same thing happened to me on my old machine. Basically gave up on the idea of Linux for a while, but when I got my new laptop with Vista installed and saw just how slow Microsoft can get a powerful machine to run (it’s like they held a competition or something), my search began again. Fortunately, openSuSE runs really well on my machine, recognized all my hardware from the get-go, and is more than I need.
Now I’m double-booting that with XP as my secondary OS (for software compatibility issues, i.e. games), and I couldn’t be happier.
I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had so many problems. My experience has been completely the opposite.
I’ve tried Linux on a Vista laptop using…
1. VMware Server (caused my laptop to slowdown no matter what VM was used)
2. VMware Player (this was better, but did notice a performance hit)
3. Feisty + Wubi (this also worked, but couldn’t suspend or hibernate =( Plus Gutsy didn’t have this option, even though it had been advertised.)
4. andLinux (this is what I’m currently using; it’s fast and was really easy to install)
5. Ubuntu and Kubuntu LiveCDs. I like those, but they are slow and I couldn’t save anything.
I’m missing the Linux desktop with andLinux and I’m frustrated with some Windows issues, so I might go back to Wubi if it works with Hardy Heron. Plus, I think if you create a physical swap partition, it might be possible to hibernate.
I’m glad you stuck with it. I love the idea of a Linux desktop (though I’m a gamer so I’d have to dual boot too) but it’s just not ready for prime time in these forms. I’m gonna give it another try sometime soon, it’s just too cool not to be informed about.
I love the fact that someone is informing everyone that the “Emporer has no clothes” with respect to Linux usability. Though the fact that a usable Unix/Linux for the desktop could have happened anytime during the last fifteen years, but hasn’t, makes me think it will forever be a computer hobbyist platform. It’s fine for server and embedded applications of course.
It took Microsoft, with all of their resources, how many years to get Longhorn (Vista) outta the door?
Slowly the hardware manufacturers are becoming less Microsoft only - the critical mass year has arrived, thanks to Vista ;-)
Check back when you next want to learn something useful.
I knew I wasn’t an idiot! I had the same issues when I tried. I kind of used to believe the linux people that free was better and Microsoft was overpriced, but after trying to get Ubuntu to work I feel like Microsoft realy actually provides a service.
This is mostly hardware vendors not giving details of their products, but hey blame linux. They should have fixed those things (by guessing the specs) for you because you want a free op-system. Way to go, good attitude, keep it up. But as a sidenote - I think most of the people who use linux do it not because it’s better (or whatever) but because it is the right thing to do. Like not littering streets, using child labour or eating junk food.
Should MS go open source and civil I would have no problems using windows.
Same as you, really. I’ve been using Linux for 10 years because of what Microsoft are, but would use Windows again if they, well, just weren’t Microsoft.
Anyway, for everybody else, don’t forget that you had problems with Windows to begin with, and experience makes those problems trivial now. Hang on with Linux, if you have some difficult hardware then hey, make that extra effort - it’s well worth it.
Give PCLinuxOS a try. I’ve been using it for 3 weeks now and in all that time I’ve spent all of about 1 hour in XP via a dual boot simply because of a legacy web building app not available in Linux. I had an issue with a non recognized network card but a new one fixed that. Since then it’s been absolutely wonderful sailing.
“My mom doesn’t prefer herons over gibbons, in fact living in the Northwest makes her a fawn fan.”
Bwahahaha! Classic.
A “computer guy” who doesn’t know that Core2Duo uses the AMD64 instruction set? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
I’m kinda glad you couldn’t figure out how to use Linux…
If support like yours is what I can expect when I need help setting up something I’ve never used before or learning things I’ve had no reason to know before, I’m kinda glad I couldn’t figure it out either.
Mainly, you are right, you are not supposed to know technical stuff to get your OS installed and working. What Ronnie here did was harsh to say the least.
Nope, I think that most people around the IT world are a wee tad self glorified pompous God wannabe’s (irony, i has it). It definitively is not like that everywhere but you get your cases.
So, let’s see first of all the thing is that it’s better if you download the DVD, less to download later; second, stick to Ubuntu (if you want KDE or XFCE then you will get that later anyways, but you should know that the main branch of development resides in Ubuntu).
Third, know the beast, is your pc Intel or AMD, once you know that, make your decision on what version are you downloading. Is it 32 or 64 bits? If you don’t know, your best bet is 32bit.
Fourth, almost any machine boots from cd rom by pressing the C key at boot time… If it doesn’t, then reboot and press the key that allows you to select where to boot from (no need to go into BIOS for it).
Now we run the LiveCD (which by the way is a way for you to either do some “computing” on another pc, while keeping your stuff on the net, via email or ftp,…, or you want to testdrive the distro).
Remember Ubuntu is not the only Linux out there and it’s not the best either…. I love and use Ubuntu but you could love and use another distro.
Some other live CD’s to try, PCLOS, Knoppix, Fedora)… Stay away from BETAS, trust me on this one, if you do not know Linux then your best bet is to stay on the safe side.
Run the live CD and test for sound, graphics, and wireless internet… In this case, my findings have been that (in my PC’s here) it’s easier to find what to do with Ubuntu, again, its nothing but a choice.
If anything on that live CD doesn’t just work… Then try the next distro… do not go further than trying 5 distros.
In ubuntu there’s a small catch though… you have to remember to activate the restricted drivers once you finished installing (so it knows what to do with that hardware)…
If you do get Ubuntu or Fedora, get a hold on the “The Perfect Desktop” how to guide to help you install some other essential things you need (like flash and java support or VMWare).
What you get is a machine that works faster than using Vista on it. Get aMSN (looks like windows live messenger), get Wine (wine-review.blogspot.com tells you how to install things like Photoshop or Microsoft Office with that) and don’t let the terminal scare you, it’s just that it is easier for tutorialists to tell you what to do using it (and it’s always easier for us -for me at least- to copy paste their instructions).
Devin if you will like it, i could help you either with what i know now (not much) or searching for the right info on the web, so we can help some other users around the world by getting all the info in one place and get you started on this Linux “trend”.
Again i extend my most sincere apologies for whoever talked to you like Ron, this line of work/interest surely has it’s black sheeps.
Thanks for your input. I’m looking forward to doing a proper dual boot some time soon, but in the meantime I hope your advice proves useful to another reader.
Don’t worry, I know most Linux users are just fine, just like most Windows users and OSX users. But the elitist attitude of people like Ron is as I’m sure you know one of the things holding consumer-grade linux back. Oh well.
Whiskey is correct: what I said *is* harsh and elitist. And I’ll say it again.
Why? Because anyone who wants to administer a computer (whether MSFT, Linux, OSX, Unix, whatever) should have a more-than-basic knowledge of hardware and how their OS works. If you don’t, should only be allowed to be a restricted user.
A hell of a lot of the viruses & botnets in this world would effectively disappear if people didn’t take the easy road and give their Windows accounts Administrator privileges.
“But that would be sooooo inconvenient!!! In order to install the latest unknown piece of mysteryware, I’d have to log out of my own account, and log back in as Administrator, install the software, log out, and log back in as ‘me’.”
Tough noogies. Making Windows so easy to use that any idiot can install any piece of malware just means that every idiot *will* install every bit of malware, and have to reinstall every 3 months. Giving Administrator privileges to “regular accounts”, and letting users log into Administrator accounts are the two worst mistakes that MSFT ever made.
HOWEVER… you’d be surprised how gentle that most people on the Linux mailing lists which I haunt are with newbies who
(a) admit that they are newbies, and
(b) are willing to read the documentation, and
(c) ask smart questions. http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Ron seems to come across as ignorant and elitist, a potent combination to be sure. I am not suggesting he is ignorant about Linux, it is safe to assume he knows more about it than I. But when reading a post about someone “trying” Linux as a desktop, it seems absolutely moronic to attack a person for multiple distro install failures. (Ron’s comments would have been more appropriate, albeit still useless and rude, had Devin been attempting to setup a mail server or something similar.)
I have tried numerous distros and used a few on and off for 7 years now. I have generally had no problems installing Redhad, Suse, Mandrake, Knoppix, and Xandros. My problems come a few weeks later when some stupid driver or package is impossible to configure and I find myself trolling groups looking for instructions on how to change a setting in some file that is never in the same place on each distro. Or for that matter, I get everything running, and I find I can’t print to a fairly standard HP laserjet printer of some other stupid hindrance.
I currently use Xandros, my last “desktop” failure, but only as a VMWare server platform for testing and installing VMs. After a 2 year phase of getting IT people to try Linux, I have given up for a while. The only Linux people I know choose Linux as a religious or lifestyle decision, not due to features or usability. The Windows world isn’t much better. The OS’s are more bloated than ever, and Microsoft has been on the decline since XP. Microsoft wouldn’t know a streamlined OS if it bit them in the butt. Which leaves the Mac crowd is pulling market share, amazing when you look at their limited software offerings and the even more proprietary environment they have created.
For the record, I am a win32 programmer writing and consulting on business and retail apps and I run Windows XP with VMs of Windows 2000 and XP for my development environments. Running VMs has been the only way I have found to maintain a streamlined environment with minimal maintenance. I can restore the host OS in an hour as needed. I can restore a VM to a clean condition in 10 minutes with a Gig connection.
Linux could be far more influential if there were more Devin’s and less Ron’s out there. Unfortunately, the elitists have prevented Linux from reaching the mainstream with a real usable product. I am sick of Microsoft and I only use their OS as a base to run stuff. The only other decent Microsoft thing I use is their optical mouse. I don’t run MS Office, IE or WMP. I would love to switch to Linux, but frankly, it still sucks as a desktop. My greatest fear is that I will someday have to buy a Mac and go even more proprietary then Microsoft to find a computing environment with decent usability.
Why is the Reply button greyed out on Scott Lynn’s “March 29th, 2008 at 10:56 pm” comment?
“Ron seems to come across as ignorant and elitist”
For 3 years, I’ve kept my wife’s XP machine virus-free without using any AV software, so I can’t be that ignorant about computing, on either the Windows or Linux side.
“I can restore the host OS in an hour as needed.”
But why should you need to? I installed Linux in Sept-05, keep it’s software current, and haven’t had to reinstall, *ever*, even through a major hardware upgrade.
“I can restore a VM to a clean condition in 10 minutes”
Again, why should you need to?
It’s always been inconceivable to me that the solution to every computing problem is “reboot & reinstall”. Computers software is supposed to be durable and modular and segregated enough that adding or removing one bit won’t make the whole house collapse.
But then, the vast majority of my computing life has been spent on “big systems”. (I consider Linux to be a big system, because of it’s intrinsic multi-user, multi-processing nature.)
“The only Linux people I know choose Linux as a religious or lifestyle decision”
That is correct. I use real computers at work, and so I wanted a real computer at home.
http://tomayko.com/writings/that-dilbert-cartoon
Ron, I am not suggesting you are ignorant about computers and technology, and I mentioned that you probably know volumes more about Linux than I. I am suggesting you are ignorant about users, specifically new users. It would seem you are too familiar with Linux or too condescending to people experimenting with Linux as a desktop. That being said, your last post was a great response and well-reasoned, it contributed to the dialog instead of mocking someone for lacking specific knowledge.
I could attack you in a similar vein. ‘”Why is the Reply button greyed out on Scott Lynn’s “March 29th, 2008 at 10:56 pm” comment?” I could go on about this being an ignorant statement. RTFM, blah, blah, don’t you know that this commenting system only nests to three levels of replies!!! How dare you lack this specific knowledge, I am glad you don’t use windows!!!’ Ok, that would be moronic. We all lack specific knowledge by definition.
But my main reason for replying now is that I totally agree with you on this comment:
“It’s always been inconceivable to me that the solution to every computing problem is “reboot & reinstall”. Computers software is supposed to be durable and modular and segregated enough that adding or removing one bit won’t make the whole house collapse.”
Unfortunately, this is the state of Windows today. And it appears it is only getting worse. My problem is that Bill’s available (yet crappy) operating systems are still more productive for me than using and programming in Linux. I can work faster, get more done, make more money, with better tools, in Windows by a significant factor, and I have years of experience configuring, managing and working in various Linux distributions. Windows, by design, collects garbage and driftwood and slows down. Software tools barely help, Antivirus really isn’t the main problem. I also have a number of machines that don’t run AV software and they have zero problems. The key to me seems to be minimizing the number of Microsoft applications that run on the desktop. Ironically, I have also found myself with a damaged Linux setup on multiple occasions. Even when installing a supposedly official RPM or whatever, it would lock up requiring some library, or fail, sometimes without reporting why, and the OS would have sanity issues from that point forward until I gave up and reinstalled the OS. I can fix a lot of Linux problems, but my knowledge isn’t broad enough for the nasty problems that have crept up.
My favorite part is when I go to the forums and look for help, after reading the manual, after reading the FAQs, after searching the posts and reading everything I can find that is related, I have posted carefully worded questions. And still on a few occasions, I have run into elitist, useless, command-line snobs, who tell me to “RTFM”, “You don’t deserve linux”, “Why don’t you run back to Redmond?” and other great bumper stick motto’s. The reason that I have settled on Xandros for so long is that their forums are fantastic, their users are informed and willing to share knowledge, and so far, the elitists haven’t moved in yet.
But I am still stuck in Windows through most of every day until the Linux desktop becomes viable. I will choose Linux as my primary system when it becomes productive for me, not as a lifestyle choice, I already have a great religion, what I want now is a great desktop operating system.
The concept of your piece is flawed. Tech-savvy people assume average users download Linux distros to try out. They don’t. It’s a myth. In well over a decade of working with users I have never met someone whose mother tried installing Ubuntu. I have met very, very few people who tried it themselves (and they’ve not been average users at all). The only people who do — ever — are tinkerers. Saying that Linux will never win over the hearts of average users unless they make the installation process flawless is incredibly misguided.
The tinkerers who download Linux install disks may be inexperienced, but they’re still tinkerers. They’re the kind of person who sees something different and thinks it will be neat to try. That is *not* behavior average computer users exhibit.
Average computer users have trouble with the concept of hierarchical menus and they keep everything on the desktop out of fear they won’t find it otherwise. As technologists we have an inflated view of average. So when we try to put ourselves (as you did) in the mindset of an average user, we have them try something they would never consider.
Of course you ran into trouble installing Linux. Installing any operating system is rife with problems. A user with a modern, floppyless computer, a SATA drive, and a Windows XP cd is guaranteed a harrowing few days of panic attacks and fits of flinging things out windows, just like you were with Linux.
But an average user will never encounter those XP problems because they’ll just trudge along with their computer as it is, no matter the problems it has, until someone more technically savvy comes along and points out there are problems that can be fixed. Then the average user will stand back while the savvy one fixes things.
Much the same thing happens with installations of Linux on average users’ computers.
Again, the people trying it themselves are inherently tinkerers. It’s a mistake to confuse them with average users because tinkerers enjoy challenges. Yeah, they get frustrated and yes they give up a lot of the time, but they don’t walk away spreading doomish messages about Linux. As you yourself did, they usually come back to it. And they do because they, as tinkerers, enjoy a challenge.
And god knows, anyone installing any operating system better like challenges.
To date I’ve installed Linux on eighty-four people’s computers. Three have not liked it, all three were above average in their experience with computers, and all three ran into dependency hell installing non-distro software. Well over forty of them haven’t changed a thing from the default installation except their wallpaper. And it’s because they don’t know or don’t care. They’re not tinkerers. They’re the average users.
Linux is far from perfect but from what I gather it needs to work most on graphical interfaces to system functions and an app installation mechanism that can handle random things being thrown into it with more grace and robustness. It desperately needs more and better niche software for non-technical users like the design industries. It doesn’t need a better installer. I’m sorry, but it doesn’t. The problems you faced are very real, but they are simply never faced by average users.
yeah i’m not sure what your talking about with the whole “no autostart screen in windows” because ubuntu has had a windows autostart program for at least the last 2 versions… by the way I’m looking at an official canonical copy of ubuntu and all im reading is “ubuntu 7.10″… theres nothing about mythical animals listed here…
The real question here is if people should know all about Ubuntu 7.10 to make it work as a dual boot or not. That is a hard question. Why? Well (just to shoot any rabid dogs JIT) it is the fact that those unknowingly ignorant do have to know something ahead so they know why they need a dual boot, or why will their HD will seem to be a bit (or much) smaller than it used to be, and so on… Yes, we are (at least here i guess) aware that the vast majority of PC users do not know more about it than the tasks they have to perform using it.
Tinkerers vs. Common People (for the lack of a better term) seems to sum it up appropriately. It is indeed a fact that most people would not be interested in changing the bus they ride to work if the bus just works (even if the bus smells) if they are not sure that they will get from A to B riding a different bus (say one is red and the other one is… errr.. i dunno… purple). That is why buses come with someway of identifying their destination. But let’s pretend they don’t. You ask around if you want to change your bus (”Excuse me, does this bus go to B?”). Would you appreciate that the one you asked for directions answered “harshly” and “elististically” (i know, that’s not a word, lol) (”Well, by now you should know that the motor on the purple bus emits less contaminants, and the tires assure a smoother ride, and I am glad you don’t ride the bus with us”)???
I remember the old Internet days when everybody knew everything but they didn’t want to tell you how to do it, because you, after reading manuals and such, would figure it out by yourself. I just hope that we kinda remembered that all that changed ages ago. Not all people that read those manuals will “get it”.
Given our position as “the ones who know” (and in my humble case, i know very little compared to tons of other people) we carry (or should carry, at least) the responsibility towards those “unknowingly ignorant”, and that is why we take almost any opportunity to say “Linux works for me, wanna try it?”.
Stupid questions? Yes, I am one of those who do ask them… because i want to stop being stupid enough not to ask them. I cannot make an educated question about something I don’t know, I am willing to learn and that is why I (the user) deserves respect. I know, i know, there are “pompous ignorants” (from the same branch of Pompous Buffonous) that knowing they do not know all (and who does, really?) feel superior enough to charge against those who know less.
“Read the manuals” means that somebody thought that there had to be a way to explain those who do not know yet how to do something. They used a convention that may not get the point across to people who know nothing about it. So then, those who now know can (and most willingly will) help the rest. And that is why there are guides and howto’s around the web to do lot’s of stuff (PC wise, because that is our topic at hand) on which not all intricacies are explained, just enough to get things done. What to do if it doesn’t work? Well, you can either call it a night, or go ahead and read yet another howto, maybe it contains links that might shed light on the subject.
But all this (and sorry for the long Reply, but IMHO it needed to be so) comes to the “Linux is better than Microsoft because…” arena. How do you get your non Tinkerer to try Linux if either a) You are HARSH AND ELITIST? b) Most documents do not cover what to do in case of emergency when dealing with a subject ? We’ve been all there, not a pretty sight, not something you would desire to anybody… You do all you know you should do, and it doesn’t work… Then you do some research, and it still does not work… You might be overlooking something but you just can’t put your finger on what it is. What do you do? Well in this time and age you blog about it.
Maybe somebody will understand what you did overlook and tell you “do this and tell me if it worked” (a.k.a. forums, comments), maybe you don’t get a response (not enough traffic to your blog anyways), maybe it’s something that has to do with something as absurd as a specific hardware combination.
If Linux is showing a more friendly face (Ubuntu “Linux for human beings”) shouldn’t we all be doing the same, just for the sake of making that less than 1% market share get bigger and bigger? Just a thought…
The real question here is if people should know all about Ubuntu 7.10 to make it work as a dual boot or not.
They should either
a) know all about it, or
b) contact a Linux guru and ask them to do it for them.
Humility goes a long way. Even those of us who are elitist weren’t born with a silver penguin in our mouths
For two years, I tried on and off to install Linux, but couldn’t figure out how.
Did I blame Linux? No.
Why? Because I knew that Linux was installable. But I admitted my limitations, and bought a box with Linux PRE-INSTALLED. Non-root username and password already created. All I had to do was log in. That gave me time to test the waters, splash around with water-wings, then learn to swim in the shallow end. It took a year or more to learn enough to be able to install it myself.
As for RTMF, do that. And use Google to help you with unfamiliar terminology. If you are still stuck, admit your weakness to the mailing list… “I’m trying to understand this HOWTO, but it’s totally foreign to me!” You will definitely get help.
But it might not be the help you expect. If you just don’t have near enough background to understand the task at hand, the best answer might be “go back to Windows until you learn more about hardware” or “ask a local Linux geek to install it for you”.
There’s *nothing* wrong with that.
You will get hostile/condescending responses, though, when you think you know it all, that attitude permeates your tone, and ask stupid, obvious questions.