Comments on: Judge calls out RIAA lawyers for bankrupting families http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/ Gadgets, gear and computer hardware. Thu, 03 Dec 2009 05:46:02 -0500 hourly 1 By: RatFink http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943863 RatFink Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:08:35 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943863 Making an un-authorized copy of the material isn't illegal. Unless bound by another contract (such as a EULA) copyright law allows a person to make copies of a work for their own use. Where things become illegal is when you distribute un-authorized copies to other people. What this means is the penalty of law is entirely on in the court of the person offering the copy. The radio example is a valid one, except for the memorize part. The responsibility in the eyes of the law is on the distributor to ensure legality of distribution (or broadcast which under copyright law is seen as the same). Should you be held responsible for receiving a signal of a pirate radio station? Making an un-authorized copy of the material isn’t illegal. Unless bound by another contract (such as a EULA) copyright law allows a person to make copies of a work for their own use. Where things become illegal is when you distribute un-authorized copies to other people. What this means is the penalty of law is entirely on in the court of the person offering the copy.

The radio example is a valid one, except for the memorize part. The responsibility in the eyes of the law is on the distributor to ensure legality of distribution (or broadcast which under copyright law is seen as the same). Should you be held responsible for receiving a signal of a pirate radio station?

]]> By: exapted http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943853 exapted Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:17:50 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943853 The harm caused by downloading copyrighted material is similar to the harm caused by stealing a CD with copyrighted material and ripping it to your hard drive. Not very much harm. It would cost the record companies a lot more if they had to sue everyone who downloads copyrighted material for small amounts. Likewise it would cost a lot for the police to charge hundreds of thousands of people with copyright infringement. Thus, in true American style, a small group of unfortunate individuals are made examples of. This is not the purpose of our legal system. We should be very critical. It seems that the record companies want us to think of copyright infringement as stealing. That's certainly the idea they are trying to foist on the masses. Legally, as you said, copyright infringement is very different from stealing. Therefore, record companies should be criticized for their propaganda (as well as their unethical legal strategy). Often when there is a blog post like this, some know-it-all (seriously, not you Alex, you made a good point) comes along and tries to educate people about how downloading copyrighted material illegally is bad, unethical, etc. Everyone understands this logic. There is nothing really difficult about it. The harm caused by downloading copyrighted material is similar to the harm caused by stealing a CD with copyrighted material and ripping it to your hard drive. Not very much harm. It would cost the record companies a lot more if they had to sue everyone who downloads copyrighted material for small amounts. Likewise it would cost a lot for the police to charge hundreds of thousands of people with copyright infringement. Thus, in true American style, a small group of unfortunate individuals are made examples of. This is not the purpose of our legal system. We should be very critical.

It seems that the record companies want us to think of copyright infringement as stealing. That’s certainly the idea they are trying to foist on the masses. Legally, as you said, copyright infringement is very different from stealing. Therefore, record companies should be criticized for their propaganda (as well as their unethical legal strategy).

Often when there is a blog post like this, some know-it-all (seriously, not you Alex, you made a good point) comes along and tries to educate people about how downloading copyrighted material illegally is bad, unethical, etc. Everyone understands this logic. There is nothing really difficult about it.

]]> By: Alex http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943851 Alex Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:03:44 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943851 Comparing downloading a file of a song to listening to that song on the radio is absurd. Downloading a file is making an illegal copy of the material. Comparing that to remembering a song you hear on the radio is the funniest thing I've ever heard. Is that you Johnnie Cochran. Comparing downloading a file of a song to listening to that song on the radio is absurd. Downloading a file is making an illegal copy of the material. Comparing that to remembering a song you hear on the radio is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. Is that you Johnnie Cochran.

]]> By: Alex http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943849 Alex Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:57:31 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943849 Totally different situations. Stealing a cd from a B&M is theft of a legally produced copy of the material, hence "theft". Downloading via bt is making an illegal copy of the material (and most likely an illegal copy of an illegal copy) hence "copyright infringement". Totally different situations. Stealing a cd from a B&M is theft of a legally produced copy of the material, hence “theft”. Downloading via bt is making an illegal copy of the material (and most likely an illegal copy of an illegal copy) hence “copyright infringement”.

]]> By: Alex http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943805 Alex Thu, 30 Oct 2008 08:19:18 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943805 Walking into a store and stealing a CD violates a criminal statute. That is to say, the State prosecutes you, not a private citizen. (Although, Best Buy could, in theory, sue you under various civil theories.) What the RIAA is bringing against these defendants are civil causes of actions. Hence, the RIAA versus the defendants. There are no State actors involved. The RIAA is suing these defendants and seeking the civil remedies allowed to them by statutes. In this case-copyright laws and such. So, while the penalty for stealing a CD may be 30 days off community service and $200 in court costs, the penalties for being found liable in violating copyright laws are quite a bit more. "Only this time, the presiding judge, Nancy Gertner of the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts, actually recognizes the complete absurdity of suing these people so much money for downloading music." No, that isn't what she realizes. Actually, this judge is bending over backwards to make sure that the defendants understand what problems they might encounter if the defendants don't get involved in the case. Most judges hate to render a "default judgement" on anyone. So this judge is trying to get all the defendants to show up in court, negotiate with the RIAA, hire lawyers - do something, but don't let the record companies just get a default judgment just because you ignored everything and didn't show up to court. In fact, at one point she says something like, and I'm not trying to make an exact quote here..."I'm open to any new novel defense, just be aware that it isn't likely to be successful." I think this is my longest post ever on CG. Those that were bored can rest assured that it will never happen again. Walking into a store and stealing a CD violates a criminal statute. That is to say, the State prosecutes you, not a private citizen. (Although, Best Buy could, in theory, sue you under various civil theories.)

What the RIAA is bringing against these defendants are civil causes of actions. Hence, the RIAA versus the defendants. There are no State actors involved.

The RIAA is suing these defendants and seeking the civil remedies allowed to them by statutes. In this case-copyright laws and such.

So, while the penalty for stealing a CD may be 30 days off community service and $200 in court costs, the penalties for being found liable in violating copyright laws are quite a bit more.

“Only this time, the presiding judge, Nancy Gertner of the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts, actually recognizes the complete absurdity of suing these people so much money for downloading music.”

No, that isn’t what she realizes.

Actually, this judge is bending over backwards to make sure that the defendants understand what problems they might encounter if the defendants don’t get involved in the case.

Most judges hate to render a “default judgement” on anyone. So this judge is trying to get all the defendants to show up in court, negotiate with the RIAA, hire lawyers – do something, but don’t let the record companies just get a default judgment just because you ignored everything and didn’t show up to court.

In fact, at one point she says something like, and I’m not trying to make an exact quote here…”I’m open to any new novel defense, just be aware that it isn’t likely to be successful.”

I think this is my longest post ever on CG. Those that were bored can rest assured that it will never happen again.

]]> By: answer http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943674 answer Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:47:53 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943674 @brian -you just downloaded file without knowing what copyright status it has, the same as listening radio or anything else related to arts. in general noone can be punished for that. @brian
-you just downloaded file without knowing what copyright status it has, the same as listening radio or anything else related to arts. in general noone can be punished for that.

]]> By: brian http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/29/judge-calls-out-riaa-lawyers-for-bankrupting-families/comment-page-1/#comment-943579 brian Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:27:14 +0000 http://www.crunchgear.com/?p=51077#comment-943579 So what if you download the file, but do not share the file. Is it copyright or theft ? So what if you download the file, but do not share the file. Is it copyright or theft ?

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