GM has declared that the Chevrolet Volt is the company’s future, and we can see why after spending a good amount of time behind the wheel of an early test mule. The experience met every expectation we had about the extended-range electric vehicle. It was electric-quick, had instant torque, and was strikingly quiet. The test mule shows great promise that the Volt will be everything GM’s savior should be.
Bob Lutz, Vice Chairman of Global Product Development and an all-around man’s man, along with Frank Weber, the Volt’s chief engineer, chatted with us a bit before we got behind the wheel. It’s clear that these high-up GM suits feel very strongly that the Volt is something special. Many, including myself, have called out GM for largely ignoring consumer diesels and hybrids, but I finally understand their positive outlook after our drive.
The test mule we drove clearly shows that the Volt and Voltec platform has a bright future. Really, besides the lack of engine noise in EV mode and the single speed transmission, consumers shouldn’t notice anything different about driving this car. And that’s the way it should be.
The Volt will be a midsize car just like the Chevy Cruze test mule. The ride and handling wasn’t tuned in this early prototype as it was assembled for propulsion testing, but it still rode fine. The electric motor, however, was spectacular. There weren’t any annoying whines or high pitched squeals that normally accompany an electric motor. The tires were the loudest part of the drive.
GM is stating that the Volt will get up to 60 mph in around 8.0 seconds and is done by the electric motor only. That would be half a second faster than Mini E, 2 seconds quicker than the 2009 Toyota Prius, and 4 seconds under the Honda Insight. Not too shabby in our book. The lack of a conventional transmission makes it feel very peppy and this car shouldn’t have any problems getting up to speed on the expressway.
Think about driving a golf cart. When you mash the gas pedal, it goes and doesn’t slow down for gears to shift. It’s the same thing in the Volt. The car just goes until it tops out without any jerking action that’s normally caused by the transmission.
The Volt will come with two different driving modes. One is for regular accelerate and coast type driving. The other is basically a one pedal driving mode. In this mode (which I didn’t like by the way), when the gas pedal isn’t pressed down, the brakes are instantly engaged. It felt a lot like driving in a very low gear at high speeds. This mode does have a purpose though.
Driving in this mode maximizes the energy regeneration from the electro-hydraulic brakes and therefore, helps keep the battery charged. This mode isn’t meant for expressway cruising, but more for stop and go traffic where the braking action will likely be performed anyway.
We drove the Volt Mule around GM’s Warren Tech Center for about 25 minutes and didn’t use a drop of gas. The Volt isn’t technically a plug-in hybrid. It shares a new vehicle segment called Extended-Range Electric Vehicle with the Fisker Karma. The car has a 1.4 liter engine on-board, but it isn’t connected to the wheels at all. The engine is there to act as a generator and recharge the batteries if they become depleted.
This engine gives the Volt around the same overall range as a standard car and kicks in when needed. We didn’t get the chance to experience the switch over during our drive but we hear that it should be seamless. Also, the Volt will probably have enough noise dampening that the small 1.4L shouldn’t sound that loud inside.
GM claims that the Volt will be able to drive about 40 miles on the lithium-ion batteries alone. That distance, however, is subject slightly to the draw on the electrical system by the heater and A/C unit. We asked the Volt’s head engineer about how much potential distance is lost, and he said only a few miles.
The Volt mule was a blast to drive and we can’t wait to see the final product. The next batch of test mules that merry the Voltec powerplant with the production Volt body and interior are under construction right now and are due in early June. Those prototypes, by the way, are right on schedule according to the original timetable.
If GM maintains the same breakneck development speed, we can see how not only this car, but the Voltec platform in general, can help save the company. There is already work on the next-gen platform and beyond. GM debuted the Cadillac Converj at the 2009 North American International Auto Show which is built on the same goods as the Volt.
Like Frank Weber told us though, GM has put the best of the best on this project and has turned out something incredible in a very short time span. It’s just too bad that the company could not push out other revolutionary vehicles at the same speed.
Photo Gallery by Picturesurf
FYI: News out today is questioning the safety of such vehicles in crash tests.
Hey, where’s the beef?
You are bullish on the vehicle, ok, but provide no qualitative analysis beyond “it … rode fine.”, “didn’t use a drop of gas”, other trivial stats that are public knowledge. WTF? I could have written everything you did, but positioned the Volt as disappointing. Get real, dude. Such is the word of Sanjay.
Great review and great insight on whats to come. I enjoyed the part where you asked about how temperature will affect the generator, particularly being out in the cold for an extended period. Questions like this are important because I live in a colder climate than southern cali. Oh, and Sanjay, its interesting that you truly believe that this is the only footage that crunchgear took. You’d be amazed at what questions can be asked and GM will not speak on the matter or merely shrug it off and move on the the next question. Nonr of that would work in a short video review for a blog. Take your own advice: “Get real, dude”
Doesn’t anyone remember the EV1 (see: Who killed the electric car?). They had their “savior”, killed it, and destroyed all the cars a few years ago. And it got more than double the mileage on the electric engine than the Volt does.
Maybe the oil companies are not paying anymore???? (just a thought/opinion)
The problem with all-electric vehicles is the cost of the batteries. In addition, if you run out of electricity, you cannot refuel quickly. Hence, the necessary compromise: a plugin hybrid.
The EV1 was very expensive to maintain and the people leasing it didn’t want to pay the high cost so they had to scrap the program. Stop watching propaganda and learn to think for yourself.
The EV1 cost NOTHING to maintain. Where did you get that garbage from? in fact the mechanics reports of “nothing to repair” over and over again is what started to scare GM really bad about EV’s (more than half there profit came from after they sold you the car and the EV1 erased most of that since it pretty much never needed any maintenance)
Battery cost? more propaganda. The cost of the battery in the EV1 at full retail was $4500
thats for a battery that would take you more than 100 miles on a charge (80-110 miles in the RAV4EV 120-160 miles in the EV1) and would last for over 250,000 miles (as stated by the creator ovonics and as PROVEN so far in real cars with the batteries in them with over 150,000 miles so far and almost ZERO degradation in the batteries yet)
for the lamen thats about 22 years before you MIGHT have to think about replacing that $4500 battery.
The volt makes me SICK. they could easily build a sub $15,000 100mile range 4 person electric car if they wanted to.
Do you really think its a coincidence that the Volt gets a 40 mile range.
Take a guess what the average range is on a $10,000 lead acid battery home built conversion. About 40 miles.
I don’t believe in coincidences.
Off course its using expensive short life span Lithium batteries (life span as in life of the battery not length of a charge) since its illegal to use the E95 batteries the NIMH batteries since GM sold the patent to Texaco/Chevron who off course refuses to license them (duh!)
If you run out of electricity its your own stupid fault for not planning properly.
Hybrids are a waste of money. Hydrogen is a pure scam. I want my damned electric car and no stinking lithium batteries that cost more than a fraking house if you want any reasonable range.
100 miles is plenty for me. My commute is 54 miles one way and I can plug in at work.
What would a $15,000 100mile range 4 person electric car means to me? a FREE CAR since I spend more on case than what the monthly car payment would be on such a car. I spend $3500 a year in gasoline. with this car I would transfer that expense to my electric bill for a grand total if $300 a year (and that’s counting the electricity I would use charging it at work!)
Man that made me mad Jordan. Ev1 expensive to maintain. It cost nothing to maintain since there was nothing to maintain. It simply never broke. and anything that WAS expensive is SOP today (traction control heat pumps etc.. all NEW when the EV1 was made but all normal daily stuff today)
Give me a simple aluminum frame plastic body 100mile range 4 person EV with NO BELLS AND WHISTLES. hell manual everything is fine for me. the only conveniences I want is AC for the summer and heat for the winter. That’s it. Junk all the other crap. All for under $15,000 (which is MORE than possible today! in fact I figure it could be done for $13,000 WITH PROFIT) $15,000 with the aluminum chassis.
Nothing to rust
Nothing to corrode
Nothing to break down
Almost no moving parts compared to gas cars
Will outlive me.
Its a no brainer.
Hybrid? I did the math on a prius. 68 YEARS to break even. the fraking think won’t even last that long.
Hydrogen. Don’t even get me started on that scam.
I am tired of people spewing the propaganda about electric cars.
Why do you think they CRUSHED them all and sold the patent to TEXACO/CHEVRON !!
Why do you think uncle sam upped the tax credit to $100k and conveniently left the hummer loop hole in place for it.
The industry does not want electric cars. So the industry got what it wants.
Higher maintenance. Man that made me laugh and then made me fuming mad.
ZERO maintenance is more like it.
Time for a ground up, backwoods, moonshine version of a car that runs under the radar of government and big business regs. We have enough unemployed auto makers to make it happen. Might even have a few half honest engineers and managers to make a totally new auto industry starting with mom and pop.
Well therein lies the problem. We are not allowed to have the batteries since the controlling patent is owned by Chevron. And take a guess who owns the only factory tooled to MAKE same said batteries.
Chevron.
So even when 2015 comes around your still screwed for while the patent will be expired you can bet your ass chevron will REFUSE to make the batteries for you.
So your going to need some serious capital to “tool up” to produce the batteries.
the key is the batteries. Everything else is cheap off the shelf and easy. Its the damned battery that has us by the balls and GM/Chevron KNOW hence why they did what they did.
I don’t care if it rides like Zues’s gold chariot. If it’s priced at $40k+ as rumors suggest then it may as well be dead. There is no way there’s any ROI in a car that expensive until gas prices push $6-$7/gal.
Thank you!!!!! But be warned, the ROI on a hybrid or electric car will be determined on the perceived value of the car to the owner.
Example: Spinners (for your car’s wheels)… People will put down serious cash for them and the owner’s perceived value of the car rises exponentially where as on the real market, not so much. Fashion for the car.
Thus the hybrid/electric cars are fashion for the “green” crowd.
But, once George Clooney has one, then everyone will want the car.
This depends on where you’re looking for the return. Some may consider more than just the fuel savings.
we will see way higher than $6-$7/gallon for gas very very soon. Even the folks who don’t like to talk about peak oil all agree that cheap oil is gone and never coming back.
Peak oil is a complete and total FANTASY. We have more oil than we could use in 200-300 years. Estimates say we have about 200 years worth of oil JUST On the north shore of alaska that we REFUSE to officially acknowledge is there because we DESPERATELY need the foreign countries to buy our debt. THE LAST thing the government wants is cheap oil.
and thats for EASY access oil. Harder to get oil adds another couple centuries to our supply.
$7 a gallon will not fly in this country. You will see people losing there jobs at $7 losing there homes at $7 because they will simply NOT have enough money for gasoline so they will not be able to goto work. (not eveyone off course but enough to cause some serious problems)
at $7 I would break even. IE going to work would equal almost no net income for me. that’s $42 for gas EACH TIME I goto work or $210 PER WEEK or almost $11,000 a year in gasoline or more than 50% of my after tax income.
I would be forced to get a more local job. alas that would put the family business in trouble. if we lose that business we lose our home.
Now suddenly that local job is not enough to pay for a home. See the problem.
I have allways lived within 5 miles from work and would consider closer if need be. I think that the American dream or the so called American dream was to live in the suburb and drive 20-50 miles to work. The auto industry has brain washed people to believe that. We as Americans need t take a close look at what is really important. Witch is where do we want to keep throwing our money at, the auto industry or the oil industy? We need to make some hard and smart decision and also compromise for the greater good of our famillies. I am onot going to mention any names but one person said the auto industry will be faised out just like the horse and buggy was. Mass transit and living closer to where you work is the key!
No matter how we look at it, we’re nearly out of oil, or we have plenty oil but the goverment is hiding it from us, or we have plenty of oil but it will kill some wildlife to get, or we have plenty of oil but are hoarding it for when the s**t hits the fan or whatever, it’s time to get away from oil.
If we start now, like we should have started 40 years ago, we will be in a better position however you look at it.
I fail to see how these cars will be any less safe than any other car when in an accident.
Kevin, care to elaborate?
So it’s an electric car, with an gasoline engine to charge up the batteries?
Yup.
I thought the gas engine was to power the car when the batteries died.
From the review:
The car has a 1.4 liter engine on-board, but it isn’t connected to the wheels at all. The engine is there to act as a generator and recharge the batteries if they become depleted.
That’s why the volt is called an extended-range electric vehicle.
Sanjay,
You are a moron. First you bitch about how you could have written a better review, and then show through an ignorant comment that you didn’t read the review thoroughly.
GM’s biggest problem will be explaining to the teeming masses of morons that the gas engine is STRICTLY there to recharge the batteries.
The EV1 got better distance on its batteries because it didn’t have a gas engine on board, so it was lighter. It was no good for long road trips, and had major issues in cold climates. It was a no go on a national market.
I read the article, idiot. It mentions nothing about what happens when the battery dies, ok? Read again and repeat your post, moron, ok? Such is the word of Sanjay.
Though I won’t be name calling here, I did think the review made it fairly clear that the Volt used it gas engine to recharge the batteries, that the Volt was a true electric car.
I understand that it is hoped that these electric cars will, in the future, get better batteries and/or better charging system. For instance the little gas engine might be replaced by a fuel cell generator or some sort.
The idea is:
Build a true electric car
Always aim for better batteries
Come up with better charging methods
And then, of course, if you had solar at home then let the sun charge your car, cool.
let’s think about a hypothetical situation… You are nearing the end of your batteries power after driving 40 miles, you are entering a very steep section while driving over some mountains… will that SMALL engine be able to charge the batteries fast enough to push this car up over those hills? The maintenance and things that can go wrong in REV’s is scary, just saying.
Well, the Volt isn’t designed to do everything. You can’t hook a trailer on it, you can’t race it in the Indy 500. It’s designed to fit the parameters of how most people drive their cars in typical urban & suburban situations.
Without speculating on what it can’t do first it would be useful to know how long it takes the engine to recharge the depleted batteries. That question wasn’t asked and should have been asked during the interview.
There will still be rental services for times when people need a gas-powered drivetrain vehicle for occasional niche purposes such as cargo, towing, camping. Or rent a true hybrid if you are going to drive over/around a mountain range.
Volt is not a one-size-fits-all argument.
I agree with the user on the price point. If GM can’t get the production cost down below $30k I think it will be a tough sell on the mass market unless they can also back it up with a guaranteed lower cost of ownership in the form of zero maintenance costs for 100k+ miles.
@Dylan said
———-
Without speculating on what it can’t do first it would be useful to know how long it takes the engine to recharge the depleted batteries. That question wasn’t asked and should have been asked during the interview.
———-
Exactly. This was a fluff piece, strangely contrary to prior opinion from TC, ok? I wonder what changed, ok? Such is the word of Sanjay.
Sanjay and Dylan
Let me explain a bit more how an extended-range electric vehicle works. The on-board generator is there to provide the batteries enough juice when they dip below 25%.
At that point the generator kicks in and maintains a charge around 30%. This can happen on the fly, while cruising down the highway at 70mph. The range of the vehicle is only limited by the amount of available gas to power the on-board 1.4L engine that charges the batteries.
The driver shouldn’t notice anything different about the driving experence as the Volt is still directly powered by the electric motor and not the gas engine.
@Matt, thank you for the clarification. That helps. It would be nice to have a test driver test that and see if it impacts perceived power.
It doesn’t have too. The generator kicks in the batteries are near 25%, not 0.
It probably wouldn’t be the right car for a Pikes Peak uphill race though.
The Volt isn’t technically a plug-in hybrid.
It is technically the hybrid: the series hybrid. While Toyota Prius is a parallel hybrid. GM does not want to call it hybrid, because of marketing issues.
I’m a little less interested in this car after hearing it’s not a plug-in. The idea of having a car that can, as long as you don’t drive to far each day, go months without gas really interested me. I would pay $40k for that. But it looks like the Volt is next version of the Prius, except we don’t know what the Prius will be like by the time the Volt hits the street.
I’m disappointed to see that once again, our American car companies are afraid to innovate and instead just play catch-up.
Ed,
It is indeed a plugin-hybrid that can go without gas if you don’t drive more than 30+ miles a day.
Sorry, if you drive less than 30+ miles a day.
Um…..I’m pretty sure it is a “plug-in” hybrid. I’m not sure where the author is getting that from….did GM change the design ????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Volt
http://www.gm-volt.com/h/volt_plug.jpg
You can call GM a lot of things, but you can’t say the Volt isn’t innovative. This will be the first car of it’s kind on the market. But I do wonder about the price, the battery life, and the range.
You guys are right, the car does plug in. However, it is of a new class of car that is called an extended-range electric vehicle.
Yeah, I know that’s marketing speak. The difference is how the car is powered though.
A plug-in hybrid has gas engine that’s assisted by an electric motor or battery pack. Think of a Prius Hybrid Plug-In. That car has a hybrid gas/electric powerplant.
Where an extended-range electric vehicle is just that: an electric vehicle first as there isn’t a gas engine connected to the wheels at all.
You may want to check out the Karma Fisker too. It’s also an E-REV.
Matt, with all due respect, the correct term is series hybrid. Extended range electric vehicle is marketingeese.
They don’t want to call it hybrid, because at laughed at the concept of hybrid only a few years ago. To call it hybrid would mean to accept their mistakes. These guys would not.
YES I can say the volt is NOT innovative because ITS NOT.
its INFERIOR technology to GM very own decade old technology.
Thats like saying lets go back to 8 engine properller airliners and calling that INNOVATIVE.
Would you?
lets see. They start with a 120-160 mile range vehicle that is high tech light weight rust and corrosion proof virtually immune to regular maintenance with a life span of 20+ years before the $4500 battery needs replacing (maybe could be longer) that cost $80,000 AS A PROTOTYPE to make (if you know anything about prototypes you know thats a DAMNED CHEAP prototype)
to a car that costs FAR more money (an EV1 today would cost under $20,000) at $40,000 with 1/3 to 1/4 the range with a battery that has HALF the life span and 4 TIMES the cost when it comes time to replace it made of STEEL so it will rust and corrode like any other normal car with a complicated prone to need maintenance tiny gasoline engine to keep it charged up so it can go more than its pitiful 30 miles range ?
And you call that innovative? What planet are you from that going backwards and more expensive is innovative?
Very good points Chris. I think your right about these companies constantly providing us less than state of the art technologies.
I wish there was a way to get them to understand it’s in their best interest to provide the best to their consumers.
This post is so full of fail that I’m not exactly sure where to start. Basically, just take everything you said and the opposite thing is actually true.
Ed,
Yes you can plug it in.
So every night you can charge it up at home.
Next day you get 30 or 40, or even more as they are hinting, miles out of it before it needs it’s gas generator.
So it your communte, like my wife’s is fixed, her’s is about 20 to 30 miles a day depending if she does some shopping after work or not, then the Volt will never need to stop at a gas station. It will just get charged at home every night.
And for us, we have solar and feed the grid all day and therefore we get our electric free at night back from the grid so a car like the Volt is a very cool idea.
Good video, but I would have been interested in more varied questions than just focusing on battery life in hot & cold weather, which you obsessed on for 3 minutes.
What’s it going to cost?
How many types of cars are they going to launch?
How many vehicles are they producing?
How long does it need to plug in to recharge?
Etc.
So could the Volt, theoretically, drive from NY to CA as long as the car has enough gas. Or would it need to be plugged in and charged at some point?
Certainly, you just refill the tank.
It is a plug-in (series) hybrid whatever GM’s name says.
I think a lot of people are getting confused by all the differnat names or variation of hybrid.
The volt is a true electric car that runs off of built-in batteries, ONLY.
It provides two way to recharge the batteries:
First, if your parked you can plug it in, (I wonder how long it will be before someone comes up with plug-in parking meters).
Secondly, when your driving it and the batteries start to go dead it has a little gas generator to recharge the batteries to keep you driving even if your going on long trips, (think of the little generators geeks take camping with them to power the lights and the TV, or whatever, and you’ll have the idea).
Incorrect. It is NOT a true electric car unless there is a SWITCH to DISABLE the onboard generator.
There is not, so it is TECHNICALLY and ACTUALLY a Plug In Hybrid of the series variety.
A Prius is simply a Hybrid of the parrellel variety there are MODIFIED prius’ that are plug in hybrids of the parrellel variety.
The Volt is by definition a Plug in Series Hybrid.
THAT is the correct name for it. it is NOT a pure electric car. (a pure electric car is usually by definition a BEV a battery electric car with no REQUIREMENT for gasoline)
That gasoline engine will turn on when it wants to and you have NO SAY in the matter unless you leave the gas tank EMPTY which is probably not too good for the engine.
Chris, your fun to read and very informative. But here you go again, making up your own definitions about Hybrid.
I don’t think GM calls the Volt a hybrid and I don’t either.
A Gas car turns its tires with a Gas motor only.
A Diesel car turns its tires with a Diesel motor only.
A Hybrid car, like the name suggests, turns its tires with a mixture of a Gas motor and Electric Motor(s).
But the Volt turns it tires with an electric motor only.
It’s an electric car. It’s immaterial how it charges its batteries. It doesn’t matter if it charges it’s batteries with a wall plug, a solar panel plugged into the cigarette lighter, a Honda portable generator duct-taped to the roof, or a built-in generator like GM is providing.
It runs via an Electric motor and gets its power from batteries. And those batteries can be charged up in lots of ways.
To get all hung up because GM is providing a built-In Generator as well as a plug to plug it into your 3 prong wall jack at home is confusing the issue. If it didn’t have its Built-in generator or if the generator was broken it wouldn’t matter. The car would still drive just fine, 100%, that is until the batteries ran out of juice and you had to plug it in to recharge them again.
It’s kinda nice to have the built-in generator, and it does make the Volt a pactical car, but it doesn’t need, and doesn’t run on the built-in generator.
The Volt is an electric car.
@Sanjay
thank you, come again!
I don’t want to buy a car whose development has been subsidized by taxpayer dollars.
You’ve been doing that for decades.
If your a tax payer why not?
Brian, if you’ve already paid the taxes, why not take advantage of your money at work?
NATE HOLDEN has not forgotten the EV1. Watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKO3J51y8Rg
$40,000 and upwards for a piece of shizz chevy, bland cookie cutter movable object?
No thanks.
Saw the “Volt” prototype at the auto show a couple years back. This version looks like something the prototype crapped out.
Typical watered down design. It will fail.
Watch.
Dude, this is a test mule for the drivetrain, shoved into a Chevy Cruze body. It’s not the right body at all. Do a google image search for Chevy Volt to see what it will look like.
I am just here to bitch slap Sanjay.
Electric car in Houston,TX heat. Will the batteries cool the car and still run the wheels? A/C is my biggest cost for my house in summer. How to cool the car with batteries? For 40 grand I do not want to arrive sweaty.
My apologies. I was actually referring to the final design, not the test mule vehicle.
Wow, great to hear such a positive review. Can’t wait to see these rolled out to the public.
The Volt is a sorry idea whose time has came. GM decided not to give it a futuristic body design because they wanted it look like a conservative family car. But it only seats four, costs over $40K, and has a transmission hump the size of the Great Wall of China loaded with batteries. Try lifting a child’s car seat over that. And a 40 mile range? What family wants this? GM has built their own Edsel.
The market for the Volt is probably a little bigger than the EV1. That is, it will be given to more stars and sports figures. Maybe the green community will try to support it, but the price and the lack of range versus newer imported car ideas makes it a a museum piece.
I think the market is huge if the price is right. If large number of comuters, driving less than 30 or 40 miles a dday, can have a car that never uses any gas but has all the other normal bells and whisles they are use to in a car then it will be a hit.
But only if it’s price the same as the gas versions.
If we have to pay more, like with the current Hybrids, then we break out or calulators and see if what we have to pay extra is covered by what we save in gas.
I have seen that cars that come in gas and hybrid versions have a 5000 to 7000 dollar cost differance. Well the math just yet convence me that the hybrid version saves me money. Add to that that the hybrid costs a bit more to service, well I’m not sold yet.
But I keep hoping. Maybe the Volt, if priced right, will do it for me and my family.
Scott,
It is true that you cannot save more than $600-1000 a year with gas prices like this. So that, pricewise hybrids (and Chevy Volt, which is a series hybrid) do not make sense. However, prices of hybrids are decreasing. Look at the new Insight, e.g., the difference is three thousand something already. On the other hand, gas prices are growing (with ups and downs, of course, but the tendency is clear).
Howdy Itman,
I agree with you. And the gas price trend is upward.
It’s such a shame that gas pricing is driving so much of this issue. We do need to break away from oil and it would be great if we could do it gracefully versus what might be storages, quality of life issues, and wars.
It maybe should be one the of the productive things our goverment might be able to help direct. Up to now they haven’t done much other than token efforts.
So it’s up to us individuals. And we are often forced based on prices.
If the cost diferance of Hybrids is like the $3,000.00 you mention and purchasing the car is not hurting the U.S. like it does everytime we buy a non-U.S. made car then it all becomes a great idea.
But if the Volt has a base price of $40,000.00, well that hurts, plan and simple.
If the goverment want to help promote this idea and make it more afordable for us then great. But if not then it will limit the Volt’s sussess.
And that’s a shame because we then buy another gas car and just help continue our oil addiction.
I agree with much of C. Taylor’s long but insightful rant. By the way, I wonder if the spelling “of course” as “off course” twice was deliberate to mean that GM is way off course with this car even if it has a catchy name is is sort of a step in the right direction?
One of the great benefits of an electric is that you can dispense with so much complexity: engine, transmission, pollution control equipment, etc. Putting an engine in the vehicle negates many of the advantages.
People will get used to using electric cars for commuting and errands. In the future, we can rent if we need to go out of town or use our old gas-powered car. Moreover, at some point, fast-charging batteries will take over, or super-capacitors, possibly combined with batteries. So, when it comes time to replace our old batteries, we might be able to swap out for extended range or faster charging (at charging stations).
And $40K is a joke. The Chinese will be shipping electrics for under 20K in just a few years, if that, and God bless them…because someone has to do it to cut our dependence on oil.
But as for me, I just want a simply, reliable car. Simple is beautiful, and electric seems to be the way to go.
JRetSapDoog,
Japanese are producing Volt competitor (and all-electric cars) already. Volt competitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_F3DM
costs only $22,000
But, we all know that Chinese are good at producing cheap crap so that I suppose a good quality plug-in with certified batteries and which satisfies all quality and safety standards will be much more expensive. 30 grand at least, even Chinese.
Don’t really care for the chinese electric car but I am interested in its BATTERIES. Hopefully there will be a side market for selling just the BATTERIES from this chinese car. If they can get it down to say $5k for the battery I could spend $10k get 2 batterys and get 125-150 miles range I would be a very very happy person.
Volt IS a hybrid. If it has a GAS and ELECTRIC motor for propulsion (direct or not) its a hybrid by definition.
Prius is a Parrallel Hybrid while the volt is a SERIES hybrid.
Difference is in the prius you can run without the electric engine. In the volt “you can not” ie if you removed the electric engine from the volt your going no where.
In theory you could do something similar with the prius but your range would be under 5 miles.
also with the prius the Gas engine can directly “drive” the wheels. in the volt it can not. Its strictly a generator to provide electricity to keep a charge in the batteries when they become depleted.
We do not need 300mile range EV’s we need AFFORDABLE long lasting EV’s
Once we have THAT the range will come as the R&D dollars are spent.
it is for everyone? well actually it almost is.
is a $40k EV for everyone? no its for about 5% of us.
but a $15k EV is good enough for 90% of us.
At first you might think but but its only 100miles. Then I say but its FREE.
Suddenly the 100miles does not seem so bad ehh?
how is it free? well assume you put a small down payment on the car say $5k
so your loan is only for $10k with a decent interest rate your monthly LOAN PAYMENT will be LOWER than what many of us spend in GASOLINE each month.
The government could also FORCE the banks to give FAIR interest rates since payment is pretty much guarenteed. I mean you paying for you Gasoline right now right? it costs you NOTHING out of pocket. instead of handing the attendent cash at the pump you hand it to the bank.
$0 out of pocket over what your paying already right now for MANY of us.
I spend $240 a month in gasoline and thats at $2.31 a gallon and that is JUST for my weekly regular driving. IE does not include when I go on trips or longer drives.
How much you want to bet the monthly loan payment with a decent interest rate on $10k is LESS than $240 a month.
when gas was $4 a gallon I was pushing $400 a month in gas $100 a week!
Suddenly that $15k 100mile range EV does not sound so bad ehh?
and transfering cost to my electric bill? I did the math at my $40,000 miles a year thats less than $400 added to my electric bill. PER YEAR.
Or about $7.60 a week. That won’t even or will just barely get you 3 gallons of gasoline.
even in a prius thats only 140 miles.
thats 700 miles in the EV.
Get a grid tie in and put a modest solar panel on your roof say a $1000 solar panel once Nano solar gets going (they are working on solar panels at 90cents a watt retail)
so for $2600 you drive for FREE FOREVER. (well 30 or 40 years till you might have to replace the solar panel)
add in that I can charge at work and my weekly “EV” fuel expense drops to $3 a week.
if the car can do 120 miles and I drive carefully my weekly EV fuel bill would be less than $1 a week.
Who here would not LOVE that?
when I want to go further? I get into one of the GAS CARS I already have right now.
Chris, where I said it was not a hybrid? :-))))) If you want a plugin hybrid right now, just buy Prius and convert it. Unfortunately, it would be a parallel hybrid. Therefore, it would still use small amount of gas (approx 0.01 gallon per mile). Unlike Volt.
Chris,
Regarding this generator discussion. It looks to me that the generator is good enough for cruising. When the batter is low it produces say 5 Kw of power to keep cruising and 0.1 Kw to recharge the battery till it is not say 30% charged. It will need the energy for acceleration. However, at cruising speeds, when the battery is sufficiently charged, the electricity from generator can flow directly to electric motors.
Sorry, Chinese produce Volt analog already. Not Japanese.
It seems that everyone considers the Volt a Hybrid. It’s not. It’s an electric car. But unlike past electric cars GM is building in a Generator.
Heck we could do that with any electric car, or even golf cart for that matter.
Just duct tape a little Honda Generator to the roof and plug it in.
My house has a Generator. That doesn’t make it a Hybrid.
A Hybrid is differant.
No matter if a person likes the Volt or not it should not be compared to Hybrids. It’s an electric car.
Electric cars are most likely our future and the Volt is just the next step down that path. I just wish it didn’t cost $40,000.
Scott, the major difference between electric cars and hybrids is that the former don’t have gasoline engines. Volt DOES have a gas engine.
I don’t mean to be obtuse. But since my gas car has a few electric motors for all sorts of things does that make it a Hybrid?
I don’t really know anything about your car. If they are connected (directly or through the generator) to your car wheels, then you drive a hybrid. In hybrid, both electricity and gas are used to move the car. In you car, electric motors have different functions.
Being obtuse was precisely your intent.
We were pretty clear. Do those electric motors provide PROPULSION and are they driven by a BATTERY ?
IF yes then yes your car is a hybrid of some sort. If not well you get the picture.
Technically is you strapped an electric model airplane motor and propeller to your car and turned it on you are a hybrid. a pointless hybrid but that propeller no matter how tiny will provide propulsion as intended.
The electric motor in your Blower in your Mirrors etc.. DO NOT nor are they INTENDED to propel the car and they are NOT driven off the battery (they are driven off the alternator which is driven by the engine)
And I agree with Chris too.
I am obtuse. My wife thinks I should diet.
The Volt has a Generator that happens to be a Gas one. I guess it could be a wind generator or a solar one or even a fuel cell one, but it happens to be Gas. But that Genorator doesn’t power the Volt in any way. It only charges the batteries.
All Hybrid cars I’ve seen or read about use their dual power sources to drive the car. The Volt doesn’t do that. It drives the car with Electric motor(s) only.
The electric motor(s) get their energy from batteries. And the batteries are recharge in various manners. From braking, from plugging it in at home, and yes, from a Gas Generator that GM happens to throw in and tunes in such a manner that it can charge the batteries about as fast as those batteries feed the electric motor(s) that drive the Volt.
It’s an electric car, man. It happens to have a external plug on it. It happens to have generators on the brakes and they even throw in a little gas generator too, cool. But it’s an electric car.
I think to consider it a Hybrid is to confuse it with differant types of cars that the Volt isn’t.
Geez, this is religious. This car indeed has two sources of energy: electricity from your house and electricity from the gas engine. It does not really matter if gas engine pushes electricity through the battery to the wheels. I think it is not really so. Because, when you charge the battery with X watts, you will get back only say 0.9 X. It is more efficient to send this energy directly to electric motor.
I agree with Itman.
It’s all watts anyway.
In true esoteric sence all cars, be them Gas, Hybrid, Fuel-Cell or Electric can be said to get their power from more than one source, Gas, Electric or whatever.
Like man, dude, how do we create the electric or how is gas made, etc.
Or maybe we go further and reverse ourselfs and say all cars only get their power from one source, the sun.
I guess what I’m saying is that in most peoples minds they understand Hybrids to have two sources of power driving the wheels. Gas cars, as we know don’t do that. And, really, neither does the Volt.
So I think the Volt should not be considered a Hybrid any more than a Gas car should be. Because I think it confuses the issue and how differant the Volt, and other electric cars soon to come, really are from Gas cars or Hybrid cars.
well in this case its not so simple. The small generator in the volt would NOT be able to produce the “demand watts” the motor requires. To do that it would have to be much larger and then you lose the efficiency.
In this case watts is not watts. The watts from your house are far far cheaper than the watts from that engine.
also the watts from the battery are far far more efficient than the watts from the gas engine especially if you try to produce the DEMAND watts needed to run OFF the engine as if without the battery.
the battery in this case is a “buffer” it can produce the massive watts needed for example to accelerate the car to speed.
Then while “cruising” the generator is now able to produce more watts than needed “on demand” so the excess goes into charging the battery.
to use the engine directly would require it to be larger (killing some efficiency) and require the car to be far more complex.
ITs surprisingly a lot easier to built a GENERATOR than an engine. No transmission needed. its basically designed to run at one speed and one speed only. When you do that you can suddenly make it a whole lot more efficient.
My problem with the volt is that its a SCAM to trick us into thinking SEE we are trying when its does not even do better than Garage Built Electric Conversions using lead acid batteries or the very cars the SAME COMPANY built more than 10 years ago.
Its a scam. Pure and simple and it just makes me more angry. they are trying to “appease” us until they can SCREW US on hydrogen.
And it still currently take too much engery to create the hydrogen in Fuel Cells.
Though I don’t think it’s a scam. I think it is lack luster companies servicing their shareholders with safe choices when the hard choices should have been made in the 70s.
No it is really and truly a SCAM on the american people.
Some “hydrogen” facts.
GRID to Wheels efficiency of Hydrogen Fuel cell cars
24%
Grid to Wheels efficiency of a Battery Electric
89%
that alone speaks volumes.
COST of the equivalent of a “gallon” of hydrogen is expected to be $7 to $8 a gallon at the pump.
MPG “equivalent” of hydrogen is expected to be around 35mpg.
There is one reason and one reason ONLY to push Hydrogen. YOU STILL HAVE TO PAY PER GALLON AT THE PUMP FOR IT.
that and that alone is the ONLY reason they are pushing so hard for hydrogen. That is why bush took down the solar panels at the white house. HELPED GM kill the electric car with the $100,000 tax credit (or was that clinton? does not matter which one it was really) and said HEY lets do hydrogen!!
A hydrogen fuel cell car is an ELECTRIC car with one catch.
the very CONSUMER FRIENDLY battery pack is replaced by a very CORPORATE FRIENDLY fuel cell.
THAT is the real difference between Fuel Cells and Battery Electric Cars.
They needed a clean renewable car technology that was also corporate pay at the pump ADDICTED to fuel replacement. ie cha ching to corporate america.
You can not MAKE your own hydrogen (not easily and not storably and VERY likely not LEGALLY)
YOU CAN make your own electricity. this scares the crap out of them. a TRUE start to energy independence.
Not independence for America but independence for American CITIZENS. its a seemingly small but amazingly powerful minor distinction.
We sent Exxon Mobile 327 BILLION dollars in 2007. thats just ONE oil company. thats JUST for oil not everything ASSOCIATED with oil.
Imagine all that going away. Poof gone. NOT transferred from big oil to big auto or big hydrogen but BACK into the hands of all us CITIZENS.
Yeah thats scary to corporate america. REALLY scary. well over a trillion dollars every year BACK into the hands of joe general public. That’s an amazingly large amount of power.
so yes it absolutely is a massive SCAM on us regular people.
Pay more get less have less control BUT ITS CLEAN.
well guess what the most CONVENIENT source of hydrogen is?
yeah you guessed it. OIL. so not only do we get NOTHING out of a hydrogen system financially or “power” wise but they get to use up the rest of the oil they own and then switch to renewable.
so THEY get the renewable advantages and WE pay for it.
No thanks. I want my battery electric car and I will never ever buy a “new” car that is not battery electric powered.
I will stick with what I have and other used cars until such a time as I can buy a battery electric and not some $40k TURD with a 40mile range. shit I can plop $9k into my cherokee converting it to electric with lead acid clunker batteries and get more than 40 miles range. (wish I had the $9k OR I WOULD)
A whole lot of people believe in conspiracy theories from big business and goverment and with good reason. And you make a good case that kinda ties a lot of the ideas togeather.
Personally I think it’s a collection of poor planning, futuristic wishful thinking, leaders that are not the sharpest brians around, and yes greed.
Being that we have solar on our house and sell it to the grid during the day to get it back free at night and that we produce more than we use I look forward to a car like the Volt for my wifes cummuter car.
For us it will provide my wife nearly free tranportation.
But two things I wish:
I got the 40 blues. It only gets 40 miles on the batteries and it looks like it going to cost $40,000.00. Man that’s a lot of zeros.
Well I guess that depends on how you define conspiracy. I think was the US Government did definatly qualifies as a “conspiracy”
IE they intentionally and temporarily created a $100,000 tax credit for over 6,000 pound trucks with the “hummer loop hole” purposely built in. I think I even read the credit was even designed to ELIMINATE the hummer and was last minuted altered to create the loop hole.
Thats a conspiracy.
but what GM and Texaco/Chevron did is not a conspiracy. Its just plain greedy business practice.
They realized this technology would without question DESTROY the economy they were suckling on. They made decision to KILL the concept as dead as they possibly could and then began work on an alternative that would push the EV idea to the background noise and MAINTAIN the suckle friendly economic structure.
That’s all. No conspiracy. Just corrupt rampant out of control greed.
BTW the big wigs are right. A battery electric infrastructure will absolutely DESTROY the economy as we know it.
what most people do not realize is that that statement does NOT mean what most of them think it means.
Most people do not realize that there are MULTIPLE economies in the economic structure of our nation.
There are 2 in particular we can single out.
OURS and that of the corporations involved.
THERE economy would implode. Goo POOF seemingly overnight. Total utter destruction with nothing but carnage in its wake.
but OUR economy. IE the economy of the lowly 80-90% of us. THAT economy would EXPLODE into a new golden age.
Think about this for a minute. I am not talking about transferring out money from GAS to some OTHER fuel (like Hydrogen)
I am talking about ERASING that expense almost completely.
Your not going to go from spending X on gasoline to spending X on whatever replaces it.
I am talking about going from spending X on gasoline to spending NOTHING (or so damned close to nothing we might as well refer to it as nothing)
Think about that for a moment. NOW think about how the price of EVERYTHING is effected by the need for gasoline.
Everything from the monitor your looking at my words on to that chair yout sitting in. to the paper that was used to make the manual for your computer to the checkbook you have the credit card you use to the pencil you sign your name with.
Every single thing you can lay your eyes on 99.9999% of is has GASOLINE factored into its price.
Even a farmer has to have supplies tools machinery seeds SHIPPED IN all needing GASOLINE.
Now imagine ERASING that need. Completely and totally. really truly erasing it.
THink just for a second. Open your mind to the extreme and extensive and shocking ramifications this would have on the GENERAL economy.
Suddenly driving and transportation becomes ESSENTIALLY FREE.
Fuel costs essentially gone. MAINTENANCE and REPAIRS reduces to mere fractions of what they are today.
in the general market PROFITS would SOAR OR prices would drop depending on the market.
either way everyone from the poor homeless guy on the corner of 5th and market to the CEO of walmart would MASSIVELY profit from a FUEL LESS economy.
Before you say but we transfer that to electricity.
FIRST electricity is downright CHEAP almost FREE compared to gasoline. I did the math. with NO SOLAR at all my electric bill would go up about $300 a year with an electric car.
but my FUEL BILL would drop by $3500 and my repair bill would essentially go away.
The average american would add less than $110 to there electric bill for the ENTIRE YEAR. (average american drives 11,000 miles a year in most place its about $1 per 100 miles of charge for a NIMH powered car $1.50 to $1.75 per 100 miles for lithium powered cars)
Think for just a moment of the ramifications of doing this.
Then consider this. There is one neat thing about electricity that sets it apart from gas and other fuels.
ITS VERY EASY AND VERY CHEAP TO MAKE YOUR OWN ELECTRICITY.
The ramifications are breath taking in there depth.
this scares the living shit out of the “few” relatively speaking that are massively profiting from the CURRENT infrastructure.
Consider this example. UPS paid a million dollars to a software engineering firm.
MAKE our routes more effecient. One major thing they did was AVOID LEFT TURNS.
why? well they take longer (more fuel less stops) and they are more dangerous (crossing traffic instead of WITH traffic)
after 1 year using this software something startling happened.
UPS saved over $3,000,000 MILLION dollars in gasoline in ONE YEAR.
Think about that for a moment.
If your like me this was your first thought.
If they saved 3 MILLION dollars basically just avoiding left turns and “neatening” up there routes.
JUST HOW MUCH DO THEY SPEND IN GAS A YEAR!
Now imagine if UPS could reduce there gas bill to ZERO. I bet they could make back 100% of a solar investment in a single year if they could switch all there trucks over to electric and offset the power used to charge them by COVERING there distribution centers in solar panels.
Think about that. Its almost scary the positive impact that would have on our society.
Suddenly freedom of travel would really be FREE.
Interesting point of view Chris. It has a few holes in it but you have basicly covered most points of the idea your presenting.
I know todays Gas cars require electric. For spark for fuel pumps, etc. But in true essiece they are Gas power cars. One power source, a Gas engine, turns the tires.
Hybrids I’ve seen to read about use two of more power sources to “turn the tires”. They use Gas and Electric.
Electric cars like the Volt only use one power source to “turn the tires”. It an electric motor or motors.
Not matter if it’s a solar power only electric car like those cool cars that collage kids race across the deserts, or an electric car that can only be charged by plugging in into a grid powered with who know what, or if it has a Gas Generator duct-taped to the roof and plugged into some batteries, or even has a Gas Generator built-in like the Volt does, it’s still in true essiece an Electric power car. One power source, an Electric motor, turns the tires.
Something else to consider. I always hear people say but it need more energy in than you get out. I am always confused and bemused by this because I only have one word come to mind right after hearing or reading such a thing.
DUH!
its called entropy. ALL ENERGY TRANSACTIONS. 100% of the are “lossy”
There is no such thing as ANY fuel source that give you more out than was put in.
YOU may put less in but MORE was put in by SOMETHING more than your going to get out. Period. End of discussion until we learn new physics that says otherwise.
GAS is lossy
Propane is LOSSY
SOLAR is lossy
Hydrogen is LOSSY
ELECTRIC is LOSSY
they all are.
the real question is not energy in versus energy out. thats pretty much irrelevant.
the real question is DOLLARS IN and what you get OUT of it.
ie what does it cost to go 100 miles. that and only that is the really important question.
It takes far far far more ENERGY IN to go from crude in the ground to GAS in your car.
ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more energy and that is not even counting the ENERGY the earth and sun put into MAKING the crude to begin with!
the thing is that energy is a LOT CHEAPER than the $2.30 they charge at the pump :-)
Its COST of energy not AMOUNT of energy that is important.
Oil companies would not care if it took a thousand times more energy to put a gallon of gas in your car than you would get out of it so long as that 1000 times energy cost them less than what they can CHARGE you for that gallon.
Hydrogen is very inefficient compared to Battery Electric.
GRID to WHEELS hydrogen is only 24% efficient.
GRID to WHEELS BEV’s are 89% or better efficient!
but they can charge you a LOT MORE for Hydrogen out of a pump than the $0 they can charge you for the electricity in your garage of that you MAKE yourself!
THAT is the difference and that is why they KILLED the electric car in favor of the hydrogen car.
They are also more maintenance and repair prone PRESERVING that side of there profit line.
They are also more expensive so financing is higher preserving THAT side of there profit line as well.
THAT is why they are trying to do FUEL CELL instead of battery electric and that is why they sold the patent to Texaco/Chevron and because of the EXPIRING patent that is why Chevron made sure it OWNS the majority of the factory the ONLY factory that makes the batteries.
They can probably DELAY battery electric cars another 2-5 years by simply REFUSING to make them after the patent expires and forcing someone else to invest and “tool up” to produce them.
Chris Taylor:
Until people get over the anti-nuclear power plant bs that they spew most power plants (that provide power to your grid) get a decent portion of their power production using oil, or other fossil fuels.
That’s also a fun fact for all the tree-huggers because that means that by trying to cut down on your “carbon footprint” by using a plug-in vehicle, if your grid is powered by anything other than nuclear or wind, then you’re probably increasing your “carbon footprint” rather than decreasing it. And if in 20 years plug-in cars become the wave of the future, then how ’bout them brownouts in Cali a few years back?
The fact is that all the emissions that regular consumer cars produce is almost nothing compared to how much ‘pollution’ the coal and other fossil fuel powered plants make. Hell, the pollution created by consumer vehicles is less than the pollution caused by cow crap.
Everything action produces a result, plug-in cars catching on will have adverse affects. Such as brown-outs. In Texas it would produce a lot of road-rage over these slow ass POS cars getting in the way and since we own guns… not necessarily a good outcome there. But we wouldn’t have brown-outs because our state actually knows how to manage its resources and produce enough energy for everyone in it who can pay the bill.
By the way wasn’t GM at one time saying the Volt would do 60 Miles which is the communter range of most Americans? If so but now the Volt’s range is down to 40 miles what does that pertend.
I drove to my wife’s office and back Monday and the round trip was 47 miles.
I know the Volt’s built-in Generator will kick in but to truelly use our house’s solar we’re 7 miles off the mark.
So, maybe I’m mistaken but I was thinking I heard the Volt did 60 miles and I was thrilled.
“The next batch of test mules that merry the Voltec powerplant with the production Volt body and interior are under construction right now and are due in early June.”
s/merry/marry/
I love how a lot of you people are looking at this car. Save the planet, oil is evil. Whatever.
Honestly, I don’t give a damn about the environment. I’ll go to the Ft. Worth Zoo if I want to see wildlife.
Someone called camping, hauling your boat, and other things that this car can’t do as ‘niche’ activites? Where I live, every weekend about 1 in 10 cars driving around are pulling a boat. Of course I live near a lake, but calling camping and boating a ‘niche’ is retarded.
This is absolutely not a revolutionary idea. Anyone ever seen a modern train locomotive? That’s an electric engine used for propulsion that is PURELY charged by a diesel powered engine. Those engines have been around for YEARS. The trick is getting something like that into a drive-train that fits on the road and still retains enough power to not be a dangerous impediment to gas-powered cars.
I want to know why they chose to use a gas-powered generator instead of a deisel, as deisel gets better power production per gallon. There’s probably a good technical reason that I just don’t know, but if there isn’t a good reason from an engineering standpoint I’d rather have deisel.
And to those people who have solar panels and feed power into the grid, that’s fking awesome. I’m so happy for you. I don’t have the money to make an investment on solar panels. Nor do MOST people. If the future of this car/platform depends on people who have solar panels, well, there is no future.
I also wonder wtf would happen if even 5,000 people in a single metro area plugged this thing in every night how much higher would the energy load be on the power plant be? There’s always a trade-off. I’m willing to bet that the gas-powered generator is a more cost-effective means of charging the battery than plugging it in over night. 1 gallon can charge the battery enough to go almost 200 miles beyond the battery’s 40 mile range? That’s amazing.
My opinion, which is from someone who could care less about the environment, refuses to plug it in at his house, and loves gas-powered engines, just can’t afford to put gas in them sometimes:
Put a 15 gallon tank on this badboy, take off the plug, go nearly 3000 miles on one tank of gas. (@ $2.45 a gallon) that’s $36.75 to go from NYC to LA. On one tank of gas. That’s awesome.
If they can do what I just said for $25,000 or less, and still make money then GM is gonna have one helluva car.
I don’t care why they chose to use a gas engine over a diesel engine. I care why they used an ENGINE at all and did not just put TWO batteries in it.
with 80 miles range it would serve 90% of my driving needs and I drove a 54mile ONE WAY commute 5 days a week.
I also tow a trailer (6700 pound camper) and a boat and a motorcycle trailer.
I have no doubt you could stick a hitch on this and I could tow my boat or bike trailer. the travel trailer? No.
why can’t it go camping?
I DO care about the environment but its a TINY reason for wanting an electric car.
I spend $3500 or MORE a year in gasoline. THAT and ONLY THAT is why I want an electric car.
Not at $40,000 though.
not at $25,000 either. still too much.
$15k or less
“The trick is getting something like that into a drive-train that fits on the road and still retains enough power to not be a dangerous impediment to gas-powered cars.”
the problem is you know NOTHING about electric cars besides the propoganda the oil companies perpetrate.
Take a mediocre electric car for me and a low end SUPER CAR for you
I will kick your ass every time in 0-60
trust me the gas cars will be an impediment to the electric cars. Not the other way around.
Unlimited torque curve fro,m 0 to max speed.
“I also wonder wtf would happen if even 5,000 people in a single metro area plugged this thing in every night how much higher would the energy load be on the power plant be?”
More lack of knowledge more propoganda.
I can tell you what would happen. NOTHING. the average household SPACE HEATER takes more power than recharging an electric car.
so absolutely NOTHING would happen.
in fact in the end overall power usage would “GO DOWN” since charging and running an electric car takes less electricity than running a gasoline car.
even better most of the electric usage for electric cars will be at night when the power plants are pumping out tons of UNUSED power since you can not shut them down for a night.
SOLAR panels? first SCREW the panels. The average american drives $11,000 miles a year.
SO the amount added to your ELECTRIC BILL each YEAR (not month but per YEAR) would be less than $200 TOTAL for the year!
so how long does it take you to spend $200 in gasoline? for me thats about 1.5 to 2 weeks. (I drive a lot (30,000+ miles MY total electric usage would be about $400-$500 a year)
For the average american using 12 gallons a week thats about 6.5 weeks.
Most people just have NO IDEA how cheap electricity is for driving and how much MONEY they will save every single year.
Average american spends $1500 a year in gas. so after adding $200 (probably LESS) to your electric bill for the WHOLE YEAR or less than $17 a month you would save $1285 a year in gasoline. I would save over $3000 a year in gas making a $15k car FREE in 5 years JUST in case savings.
then you get into the massive savings for maintenance and repairs (not with the volt I am talking PURE electrics only)
oh and as a side benefit you put oil out of business and help clean up the environment.
Oh and I get people all the time that say what if I want to go more than 100 miles
what if I want to tow that 6700 pound trailer.
Hmm let me think about that. Its coming to me (sorry for the sarcasm but its so stinking obvious)
YOU DRIVE THE DAMNED GAS CAR YOU ALREADY HAVE !!!!!
sure not all of us can have 2 cars but MOST of us can. so you keep your gas car for when the EV won’t do it for you. Just like the guy who has a town car CAN NOT town my 6700 pound trailer.
hell even an F150 is going to have a fight towing this trailer. I know my brother tried :-)
I can not wait till we get PROPER EV’s its going to be a while. not because its hard or the tech is not here but because the auto makers DO NOT WANT TO MAKE THEM. and Chevron is holding the NIMH patent that would make them affordable.
Electric cars by nature are CHEAPER than gas cars.
the high price is artificial.
Someone also said public transportation is the key, the wave of the future, etc….
The only good reason to ride public transport is… um… I can’t afford to own my own car and put gas in it.
That’s the only reason I would willingly sit next to a complete stranger on my way to work, and I sure as hell wouldn’t let my wife ride public transport by herself, sitting next to all the freaks out there.
And since I *can* afford to own my own car, and put gas in it most of the time, then I won’t ride public transport. That is I won’t ride public transport until Obama manages to make it to where I can’t afford to own a car, which the way he’s doing his very best to destroy the economy beyond repair, that might not be too long.
Jeez, I have other stuff to do but I keep thinking of some of the stuff ya’ll were saying and I have to respond…
Everyone’s so concerned with the distance to commute to work, and theirs is under or over 40 miles… like wow… I work about 10 miles away from where I live. 20 mile commute, right? That’s how far I go in a day, right? Hell no. Average distance I travel a day is 100 miles.
Let’s see, where does it all go… well, work, that’s 20 there. Then my best friend lives 15 miles away. I usually go over there twice a week. That’s 30 miles in a day. (They live in the opposite direction of my work.) Then if we go to a movie from their house it’s 10 miles. Then 10 back to drop them off. So that’s another 20.
So if I go to work (10m), come home to get my wife (20mi), go pick up our friend (35mi), go to a movie (45mi), drop off friend (55mi), go home (60mi). And that’s if we choose to go to the crappy movie theatre. If we decide to go to our favorite restraunt that’s a good 30 miles there. (I live in Dallas, restraunt is in Ft.Worth.)
So here’s what we’ve done before, in a single day. Work, home, friend, movie, restraunt, drop off friend, home. That’s 10, 10, 15, 10, 30, 30, 15. Or 120 miles.
That’s probably once every couple weeks we do that.
More normal is gym, home, work, home, softball practice, gym, home. 10, 10, 10, 10, 5, 15, 10.
Total = 70 miles.
You people who drive under 40 miles a day, every day, really, really, really need to get a life.
Seriously.
Tom,
Check the answer of Chris. First of all, night electricity is largely unused. Second, burning a coal to generate electricity, transferring it to your home, charging the battery and ultimately running the car, has much better efficiency than a diesel or gasoline engine. There would be higher carbon footprint of producing such a car, but definitely not more than for a mid-size SUV.
Last, but not least, speed and acceleration of an electric vehicle can be much better than that of a gasoline engine. Speaking about your mileage. It is a bit more above average, but technology will keep up with it in say 5-10 years: battery improve 8% each year and we will probably see some breakthroughs.