The Laptop Hunters commercial campaign that Microsoft is pushing seems to be working. Young people in the 18-34 demographic see a laptop running Microsoft Windows as a better value for the money than an Apple laptop running OSX. Apple had dominated consumer mindshare in the winter, but has since fallen behind Microsoft.
All of this is according to daily interviews conducted by BrandIndex to track the relative strength of each brand. On a scale from -100 to 100, Apple current rests a little above 12 points, while Microsoft is sitting pretty at 46. A score of zero means that an equal amount of good and bad things are being said about a brand, so both brands are getting more positive than negative feedback.
I wonder if the perceived value of Microsoft in the younger demographic has more to do with ignorance? That sub-$1000 PC laptop will only come with a trial version of anti-virus software, and won’t come with much in the way of productivity software. You can get OpenOffice and a free version of AVG antivirus, but I’d wager that most folks will want to buy a commercial antivirus product for that extra peace of mind; and many will feel obligated to buy Microsoft Office because it’s what everyone else uses. Suddenly that value laptop has a couple more dollar signs attached to it.
Of course, everyone and their brother know how to troubleshoot Windows PCs (”turn it off and back on!”), so the long-term maintenance may be cheaper. Apple machines are black boxes with few user serviceable parts under the hood of the operating system. You need to take your system to the Genius Bar and risk feeling like a complete moron under the scornful gaze of a hip twenty-something who gets to play with fancy Apple toys all day long.
At the end of the day, both Macs and PCs are tools, and one should buy the tool that they feel will best help them do the work they need to do. Neither is, prima facie, more valuable than the other, so all this posturing and advertising and talk of value is a waste of time. Spend the money making better tools, rather than trying to convince us that this tool is better than that one.
Uhh, ok. Mac machines are overpriced for the power they offer, when compared to PCs. That’s simply reality.
As far as buying what will help them do the work they do best, I agree.
Simple truth.
AND Macbooks have sharp edges and the screens don’t go back far enough and the individual keys are annoying.
“AND Macbooks have sharp edges and the screens don’t go back far enough and the individual keys are annoying.”
Is this a joke? Are you trying to be funny? Sounds like your talking about something that came out like 10 years ago.
Following the logic that the cheapest ones will only sell then BMW, Porsche or Ferrari should never sell a car again EVER. Apple makes an amazing laptop with and even more amazing operating system, and it’s what I use to get my work done and get paid.
Macbook Pro – $2000
Development Software – Free
Getting Paid – Priceless.
I don’t recall photoshop being free. What are you using iLife to do paid work?
I make 1500 a week spitting out wedding slideshows on iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD… standard FREE software on my Macbook…. Jackass!
Implying that Apple is the computer version of Ferrari is a grotesque overstatement. Asserting that Apple offers some level of performance that I cannot obtain from a pc is simply incorrect. Not only can I build a pc as powerful (or more powerful) than a Mac, I can do it for less. If you’re not intelligent enough to build and maintain your own machine…well then continue paying ferrari prices for chevy quality….sucker.
@Dante-get a real job!
HAHAHAHA…. Windows users get so butt-hurt. It speaks volumes.
Your fanboy-ism makes you look like a douche. It speaks volumes.
Douche’s use “douche” in conversation… And it is SO 2008. Such is the word of Sanjay.
LOL! Well played…Fart Knocker.
Douches say that douches use douche in conversation. Such is the truth. So says reality to sandouchey the douchebag.
I switched from a Mac to a PC a few months back and it was dodgy, Lots of warnings all the time, I got really paranoid. I still enjoy Windows Media Center far more than Front Row and the “all-you-can-eat” Zune MarketPlace is far superior to the $1.29 a song iTunes. Computers are tools, not a way to differentiate yourself.
With the increased emphasis on web apps for day-to-day use, it’s hard to differentiate the value between a dirt-cheap netbook running Windows XP and an entry level MacBook for $700 more. Is your computer a communication device (like a phone) or a toolbox to be used to build things as well?
Probably doesn’t hurt that the economy is in the tank either.
Considering Mac & PC now use the same processors(Intel), there really is no reason, anymore, to pay that much more for a computer. When Mac was all hardware driven, it was a more efficient system because PCs relied on software to do the little things.
According to TechCrunch you must be ignorant.
I find it amusing that a technology blog can itself be so incredibly ignorant concerning technology. TC you have no credibility.
Which piece of mind is anti-virus good for?
piece of mind? piss of mind? piez hauf maind? R.I.P.
Peas of mine, actually. Get your own peas guy.
“many will feel obligated to buy Microsoft Office because it’s what everyone else uses. Suddenly that value laptop has a couple more dollar signs attached to it.”
How, exactly, does this not apply to an OSX machine as well? I’d say the average user is about as likely to download OpenOffice as stick with iWork…
And to be clear, i’m an avid Mac user who will tout their benefits to my death. I just don’t feel that statement was entirely fair.
wow! i like your sense of fairness.
the writer should have specified exactly what pc doesn’t come with and mac does. especially since he is suggesting that the younger, pc buying folks are ignorant.
mac doesn’t come with MS Office and paid version of anti virus either. one may argue that there aren’t many viruses for macs but for the peace of mind he is referring to, i’d install an antivirus on mac too. otherwise, free antiviruses like avast are pretty good.
That seemed like an odd statement to me too. Granted, Office Home costs twice as much as iWork, but you still have to pay for each.
Have the idiots at crunchgear forgotten that Microsoft Works comes included in many computers? but the again they had to go about adding the negativity so the Macs look better. Sad these fanboys run this gadget site when they are overpaying for the same hardware and want to say that it just works? my ass… I make more money on my Apple customers then my PC’s and that’s cause i could charge an arm and a leg to these idiots!
And macbooks don’t need extra expenses for Word or Pages etc? Have a macbook myself, but this is bs. Like people of that age 18-25 are paying for software yeah right.
Yes, some of us miraculously seem to have jobs and pay for our own software. Strange, I know.
Wow… you have a job AND buy software.
- All hail Charles!
Young people haven’t spent enough time fixing a fugged up PC in a pressured business situation (aka, boss breathing down neck) to care.
Since I moved to a Mac, I’ve had Microsoft Office crash a few times, but that’s it. That’s all people. I musta saved a couple of weeks of working time in a year, not dealing with all the other crap. Coupla weeks is well worth a little tiny extra money to me.
Oh yeah, Kevin Eklund (above) mentioned that the economy tanking doesn’t hurt. Totally agreed. I can make the kind of statement I did above, because I haven’t lost enough income to be living paycheck to paycheck. I might make a different decision at that point. (Sure, we lost one income in our house, but I still have mine, thankfully!)
musta? There goes any credibility you never had.
“but I’d wager that most folks will want to buy a commercial antivirus product for that extra piece of mind”
‘Piece’ of mind? You mean the piece that fell off when they believed the ads ;-) ?
Virus software is not a reason to buy a Mac. You can get a year of McAfee for under $20 or even free after rebate. As far as MS Office, I added it for $98 to my $599 computer. At $697 I got an excellent computer far cheaper than any Mac…
I have a macbook (which replaced an ibook). My last purchase was an Asus EEE laptop. I love OSX and all the software that comes with apple, but my next purchase will most likely NOT be an apple product.
It’s simple. Price and quality. Sure, spec for spec and Apple is comparible at the high end….but nowhere close at the low end. I can buy 4 EEE laptops for the price of a Macbook.
Then there’s quality. My Macbook has been a nightmare of failures and overall rickety behavior. There is absolutely no excuse for that considering what I paid.
Apple needs to completely rethink their entry and mid level strategy in light of the recession.
…because you NEED four Asus EEE PCs, right? I’m sorry, but farcical comparisons like that hurt your argument–it’s the “one billion cheeseburger” fallacy; you’re using a unit to illustrate your point that has no bearing on real-world needs and usage, even if it sounds impressive.
For what it’s worth, I just bought the new Al MacBook, an apple refurb, and I’m absolutely blown away. Pricewise, it’s comparable to a (new, moderately featured) Windows laptop, but the build quality, the solidity, and of course, the OS and included features are an order of magnitude better. And yes, I’m a longtime Mac user, but I’ve had bad Macs and good Macs and this is a very good one. I also have a netbook (running retail-purchased OS X 10.5) and I use it for what it’s intended–light browsing, some note-taking, media playback. I do serious work on my MacBook (like moderate video editing)–because it is more than four times more powerful and versatile than the netbook, despite being four times the price.
As far as Apple’s entry level strategy, that’s a good point. However, I suspect they’re going to address that from the iPhone end and not the Macbook end of their product spectrum.
2 to 1 would be farcical. 4 to 1 is not.
we have 2 laptops at home. One is a macbook and one is the EEE. I could not affort 2 macbooks. When you can afford multiple laptops for the price of one it has definite practical advantages.
First, I’m far more likely to buy it due to risk factors. Buying a laptop (especially fragile apple gear) is risky. If I can replace one after a catastrophe and still have spent far less than ONE macbook….that’s saying something.
Also, in situations where you have multiple users, it makes you rethink how you use them. If you have three kids fighting over the macbook, then yes…3 for less than the price of one might mean something to you.
So units have definite effect here. It substantial enough that it changes the entire purchase equation.
And the “high end” strategy rarely works out long term. It’s kind of the last refuge for companies about to be overtaken. Think EMC, Epson, Hayes, a handfull of harddrive makers…. Apple dodged this bullet once because MS is so fat and inept, but can they do it again?
I can buy for knives for the cost of a handgun too.
Tel you what lets have a fight, you bring your four knives and I’ll bring my automatic handgun.
Good luck to you.
Same thing when you compare a Mac to it’s mimicker, Windows.
I bet your iHandgun would win, right? That’s what I like about Mac users: they’re so incredibly smart! The logic of the illustration destroys those simple minded pc users; where could they possibly go after that. Mac users are willing to pay at least twice as much because they must have the best. Because that’s who they are–the best! And now everyone else will finally know it too. Hurray! I have an iMac, an iPhone, and an iPod. I must be Great. Just wish I still had money left over to buy some iBullets for my sweet iHandgun.
Don’t get me wrong I love Macs but the way they campaign their products is so misleading. They directly claim that MS computers get viruses and crap out. It’s like me saying my neighbor gets sick all the time and magically I don’t ever get sick. Come on now. I’ve seen Macs get viruses and crash.
Uh? really?
Care to name some or just one OS X virus ACTUALLY spreading?
Boot Camped Macs do get virus though.
Sorry, adware and worms. You know, the OS isn’t immune to being hacked.
Here’s a one: Inqtana.A Worm.
Never heard of it…. HA!
One proof of concept worm that was never even released on the public?? That’s all you got?
Please…
Stop the fear mongering and misinformation.
Why does the homepage show John Biggs as the author but on the actual article page it show Scott Merrill? A bit of bait and switch? Or is it because John posted the article from CG and is taking credit for it? I think that should get worked out.
You can’t talk about value when comparing computers based on software. Software is an add-on, not the primary purchase. Both Mac and Windows do not come with Microsoft Office. Well most Windows computers come a free trial. That trial may actually make Windows an even better value since you don’t have to buy Office right away. Gives you time to save up and buy it.
On the low end, you get more on the PC, but as soon as you add the options in, the price gap between comparable high end hardware is less. Plus the premium to use OSX is worth it. You are also paying extra to be in a safer software environment. Apple knows people can always label them as elitist, they don’t care. They like being premium. This idea that you can just compare specs and price per component, and say that a computer is just the sum of its parts, is ridiculous. I’ve built PCs from barebone components before, but that doesn’t make me go around and slam people who are creating their own integrated solutions. There’s a lot more cost in there than just the components and a flat OS fee.
Hmmm….I am not seeing that Microsoft Office comes standard on a Mac either. Must not have been able to see that detail while you were too busy bowing down to Apple in ignorance. Great job only pointing out one side of the story. Let me guess, your defense will be something like, “I never said Mac’s come with Office for free” when that is exactly what you insinuated.
Poor article…
Is not like OS X software is for free…
Yeah, you need to spend money on MS Office but you’d need that with a Mac too. If you’re a student it’s only $59, no big deal. AVG Free works just fine for an AV. 17″ Macbook Pro $2799, 18.4″ HP with larger HD $1447. 1/2 the price, more features, larger display, better video card. Buy one now, give it away in two years and buy the latest, you still come out ahead. A computer is a tool, not a club membership
Even if the specs are a little better, which I think the OS would more than make up for, there is still the form factor.
The 18.4″ HP weighs in at 8.82lbs, while the MBP is only 6.6lbs. When you’re carrying around a laptop in addition to school books, the extra 2.22 pounds can be a huge difference.
The MBP is over 1/3″ thinner than the HP as well.
You say computer is just a tool.. Just like a Honda Civic is just a car. However, most people would prefer to drive a BMW. Just as a BMW gives you a better driving experience, and a better re-sale value, so a Mac gives you a better experience and a better re-sale value. Guess how much will you get for that $800 Dell laptop after 2 years… maybe a hundred bucks.
I find it interesting that Microsoft has entered into this Mac vs. PC war. A PC != Windows, it could run linux just as easily.
The MS Office comment is kinda stupid. Everyone I know has MS Office on our Macs. And the 18-34 demo is just going to get one of their geek friends to install it for free.
However, having used both Mac’s and PC’s over the years, I will the following is 100% true in my experience:
1. Power management, turning on/off, and standby mode WORKS on Mac’s. On every PC laptop I’ve ever had (and I’ve had them all: HP, Dell, IBM, Compaq, Toshiba) these features do not WORK.
2. Spec versus spec, hardware is much more expensive on Apple. But the software is much more efficient and as they offer newer versions of the OS, the software gets MORE efficient. Every new version of Windows just gets more piggy. I have a 1.8GHz CoreDuo (not Core2Duo) 1GB RAM Mac Mini that is about 4 years old. It works great. Good luck getting Vista to run on a system with those specs.
funny, every machine ive own (Dell, HP, Toshiba) sleep and hibernate perfectly.
It works for me too…
Works flawlessly for me too….
lol… Vista? Who uses that any more? p.o.s. OS that is is.
Win 7 will run on that old ass lappy of yours, no problem. And, it will be the default OS on any new PC by the end of the year
And if you can’t figure out power settings.. well.. that’s a user issue.
@Xris > I love how people are so religious when it comes to Mac vs PC. I just want something that works.
You 1st comments talk about an unreleased piece of software that will magically solve all my problems. Ah vaporware! It can always do anything you want it to do, can’t it?
As for power management being a user issue, on PC laptops I had many issues that are not user errors such as:
–Takes way too long to start up / shut down.
–Connections to things like the network and printer just disappear when I bring it back from sleep.
–Sleep doesn’t really save that much battery and the laptop still dies in a few hours.
–If I set it to hibernate but close the lid before it finishes the hibernation cycle, the whole thing shits the bed.
As I said in my original post, this is in my experience. Your mileage will vary. But I don’t know anyone who is satisfied with power management or startup times on PC’s.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/download.aspx
uhh…its not vaporware if it actually exists.
“But I don’t know anyone who is satisfied with power management or startup times on PC’s”
my PC starts up in under 30 seconds. and its sleeps and hibernates wonderfully. comes back from sleep in about 3 seconds. now you know someone who is satisfied with pm and startup times on PCs.
Count me as another person who is totally satisfied with Windows startup times and power management on my several PCs.
I have the Windows 7 RC on my desktop and that thing smokes any windows experience I’ve had before. I love that OS.
I will say that Vista put both of laptops to sleep without any hitches (well one hitch, ONCE) as well as my desktop without any hitch (none whatsoever).
Yes, I do think that Apple’s prices are a little high, and I’m a confirmed Mac-o-holic … OTOH, I booted up a Windows laptop a couple of months ago, after not having used one in a while, and I couldn’t figure out how to work the damn thing – the OS is just as mind-bogglingly weird as it ever was (actually weirder, because it was Vista). And, of course, it crashed a few times when I was trying to hook up my live video-streaming software. Ctl-alt-del City. I’ll stick with my Mac and the hip geeks at the Genius Bar, thanks.
i gotta call bull shit all over this comment.
I second that. BS
Many people in the 18-34 demographic you mentioned are students (full-time or part-time). Students can get a full version of Microsoft Office Ultimate 2007 for $60 at http://www.ultimatesteal.com
Wow Scott! I dint know that your MAC (your God it seems like) gives free MS Office (as you say one would need to buy it if they use Windows PC!?)
So let me guess… For that extra 1000 buck that one would pay for 17inch laptop that protects me from virus… uh but it catches fire http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/20/unibody-macbook-pro-catch-a-fire-owner-want-no-more-trouble/ ehehe so thats how it protects my data from viruses by burning itself up? hehhe nice…
iWork 09 does not come with Macs. It costs $50 if you buy it at the same time you buy the MacBook, iMac, or Mini, which is admittedly cheap, but you are misleading people by implying that Mac’s come with an Office suite and PCs do not.
So, must have been hard to write this? You seem to be a begrudged mac fanboy…
Either way, MS doesn’t need a commercial to tell us that Macs are absurdly overpriced (btw, they don’t come with MS office for the mac for free, either). Anyone with a vauge concept of cost:value can put 2 and 2 together and come to the same conclusion.
Apples popshots with the mac vs PC commercials have worked so far against them that it’s strange to see them keep dumping money into it.
There seem to be varying definitions of value… Yes in plain dollars and cents, Windows PC would win every time. But if you start to factor in user experience, things change.
I bought a Macbook pro 2.5 years ago and have yet to have a problem with it. In the same period of time, I’ve had to help fix a lot of Windows PC’s.
Macs just work, period.
“Yes in plain dollars and cents, Windows PC would win every time.”
this is what the ads are about.
“But if you start to factor in user experience, things change.”
then we should consider other things as well. like, hardware customization and upgrade, the large user base for pc and that the fact that troubleshooting is so much easier (as mentioned in the article)
Completely disagree with this. I’ve had tons of problems with my macbook pro in the past 2 years: lots of kernel panics, won’t wake up from sleep, etc.
The biggest problem I have is the wifi SUCKS – it gives you almost no control over what networks to connect to, and it never remembers my home wireless settings (so I keep tying it in, every time… :()
Doh
Thank you for the honesty; Mac users usually seem rather reluctant to mention any problems. Nice to find an independent soul.
Correlation != Causation.
@ Gary
Open office is free and does enough thanks.
“This idea that you can just compare specs and price per component, and say that a computer is just the sum of its parts, is ridiculous.”
When will people get it through their heads. MAC’s are not premium. They are not some ridiculous high end personal computing solution. They are the same components put into a prettier shell. That’s it. There is nothing about a MAC that makes it any better/safer than a PC with comparable hardware. Nothing.
The primary difference between PC’s and MAC’s is simple. PC manufacturers have to compensate for many, many different kinds of dumbass, while Apple only had to account for one type of supreme dumbass. That’s it.
More hands in the pot make for more issues with the results, but also leads to more choices for the consumer. There is a MAC and a PC solution for everyone out there, but it is simply a matter of personal preference as to what you ultimately choose.
I love my iPhone, because there is currently no moble device that compares with its interface for what I need in a phone. That said, I would never buy a mac, or choose one for any reason, primarily because I am more comfortable with a machine I can rip apart as needed or upgrade at MY leisure. That is not saying my choice is the right one, simply that it is the right one for me.
I bought my first macbook a couple of months ago and it didn’t have an antivirus or office package on it either. You article is misleading, fanboy.
Dude seriously why in the hell would I buy a Mercedes E class when I can get a Hyundai Genesis for like half the cost…Merc’s suck ass anyway.
Stupid Merc fanbois.
Nice work TC! Just mentioning Mac vs PC always seems to get the readers going like shaking a box of chickens. Bok bok Mac. Bok bok PC.
I bought a Mac Mini ($799 model) a few weeks ago with iWork 09 ($50) and then purchased VMWare Fusion ($70) and Bento ($50 for Mac, $5 for my iPod Touch). I am not dual booting but I have a laptop and PC both with Vista, so there’s no need.
So far the Mac Mini is great. It’s my first one and I’ve never been a big fan. Why did I buy one? I’m bored with Windows (I do Windows software development and have for almost 20 years) and wanted something different.
Value-wise, as long as it doesn’t self-destruct in the way almost all Windows installations do, it seems like a solid investment.
Blah blah blah. We’ve all hashed this argument out a hundred times before. What I really want to know is if that video at the top of the article is from microsoft or milf hunter.
So now that the comments have had a chance to percolate, let’s look a little deeper into the issue. At the risk of sounding like Robert Pirsig, what is *value* ?
Is it purchase price alone? I’d wager that most young people, as well as first-time buyers, will make a decision based primarily on purchase price. The PC looks like a better value because it costs less.
What about over the long term, though? Does one system cost more over the long term to maintain? Is it easier to get reliable support for one system than another? Are the support costs the same? Do you think the people polled for brand “value” in the story linked above factor this kind of thing into their response?
And when a system has survived the long term, is it still useful to you? At least one commenter observed that you can replace a PC every couple of years, since the price is lower. Is that a good thing? Does that add value to the PC?
Are there other things you might buy for which you’d say that such disposability is a good thing? Or is the Mac in fact more valuable over the long haul because it retains its usefulness longer?
I’m not going to touch on the user experience issues, because that’s a religious debate for which no win condition exists. Some folks like the Windows experience and some folks like the OSX experience; and never the two shall meet, or something like that.
Nonetheless, user experience will factor into an individual’s opinion of the value of a product, so maybe we shouldn’t discount it.
What about third party software? How does it help or hurt the value of the computer itself?
I think it’s a toss up. hardware is hardware. There is bound to be failures at some point. I have had several friends who had their macbooks fail in terms of the hardware after a few years. Same with PC.
I honestly don’t think there is much difference now that the hardware for both MAC and PC is really the same.
Really? It must be my imagination then that Apple in MANY occations DENIES SUPPORT for many issues even when under warranty. Ohhh and lets not forget how much it costs on to replace batteries on a Mac and the process involved…yeah, great service there!
Whenever you decide to remove your blindfolds, just look at evidence of the recent Macbooks with NVIDIA chipsets crapping out and although it was a widespread problem, Apple censored comments on its forum for a long time until the secret could not be kept anymore…talk about support and hidden costs.
Oh and by the way 80% of the comments here address your lame Office argument…you didn’t do anything to address that…still what can you expect from bloggers who think life is just about social media, apple and trendy topics…traditional media may suck but right now you are begining to act just like them, only for different reasons.
As always, pathetic.
I wouldn’t get very far in life if I addressed every complaint someone has with one of the lame comments I make.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to stop wasting my time blogging and get back to using Facebook on my MacBook!!
I can’t believe he didn’t address the fallacy in his argument regarding the additional cost of MS Office. Failing to do this both hinders his credibility and uncovers his true agenda.
Along the same lines, I’m surprised the author was able to somehow make the jump in logic that a cost averse consumer would want to purchase a more expensive anti-virus software solution when perfectly capable free versions exist to everyone. Why would someone who is purchasing one notebook over another based on cost savings immediately want to purchase additional software when free alternatives exist? The truth is, they wouldn’t. This shouldn’t be used to show the value of one notebook over the other.
With these arguments, the author is reaching, and his argument/logic is suffering.
In the magic land of the Blogosphere, very few take responsibility for what they say, that way one can never be wrong. But unfortunately blogs have given a voice to a lot of people who don’t deserve it. I miss the days when independent tech portals ruled the world and sites that didn’t get their facts straight were frowned upon.
Amen to that!
“What about over the long term, though? Does one system cost more over the long term to maintain? Is it easier to get reliable support for one system than another? Are the support costs the same? Do you think the people polled for brand “value” in the story linked above factor this kind of thing into their response?”
You could easily use the argument that because there is a larger install base of windows PC’s that it is much easier to get support for them, what PC owner doesn’t know someone who can take a look at their computer?
I would like to see what arguments you would come up with as far as insinuating that PC maintenance costs are higher in the long run. The same long term problems that are likely to come up on one platform (hardware failure or the system being bogged down after years of use) are just as likely to show on the other platform.
As far as mac retaining its usefulness longer, what are you basing that on? One commenter who mentioned that for the price you could just as easily buy another computer years later? Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean that you NEED to do something.
Given a mac and PC with the same hardware, what magically makes the mac faster over time yet just as easily makes the same windows hardware useless after a few years?
Now I get why you seem to ask so many questions but never give any answers, you have none.
While you may not get far in life if you addressed every comment someone made about a post of yours, this particular comment is rather important as it goes to show a bias in your article that was completely baseless and brings into question any other statement you made.
I know calling yourself a blogger lends itself to giving you more leeway in your writing but it shouldn’t give you carte blanche to make any baseless statement you want and pass it off as pure fact. Your oversight in even trying to address that point only leads others to believe that you have no way of backing your claim up and instead of correcting it in your article you would rather just come off as just another fan boy.
The best part of being a Mac user when Vista rolled out was that I finally had an excuse to stop fixing my friend’s Windows PCs (”Oh, I’m sorry, I can’t help you — I don’t know how that works in Windows”)
This is precisely why there will always be a need for real journalists. Blogger fanboys have no need for objectivity. The more angry we get at his idiocy, the more comments it generates. Good for you hipster fanboy!
Having worked at several production studios which were any combination of Mac, PC and various UNIX systems, I have yet to find a single instance of a demonstrable difference in TCO between PCs and Macs, even for the video/graphics work Macs are supposed to be so clearly superior at handling.
An Avid system is an Avid system, a Maya system is a Maya system, and an Adobe CS system is an Adobe CS system. I have yet to see a clear cost advantage to running any particular OS on identical hardware. Now mind you, we are talking all high-end systems here, so it might be that things are different at the low end, but in my experience, there is no long-term monetary difference between the two platforms. The idea that properly configured PCs require more regular maintenance than properly configured Macs is a complete myth. The reality is that they both require an annoying amount of maintenance.
If an artist is comfortable with Windows, then he will be more productive on Windows, and if he is more comfortable on Mac, then he will be more productive on Mac, and wages lost to attempting to retrain an artist to work on a system he is not used to, are far greater than any hardware or maintenance expense. Some people like different platforms more than others, it is as simple as that. All these attempts to rationalize it with TCO numbers are just a waste of time. Neither OS magically makes the same exact hardware more reliable.
The whole virus/trojan issue is a complete red herring. Anyone dumb enough to connect any computer directly to the internet without using a network firewall of some sort, and dumb enough to click on any attachment coming through their email without any thought, is going to find ways to mess up their computer no matter what OS is running. Whether it is turning off an external drive while it is working, or spilling coffee in the computer, a dumb user can always mess up a computer.
Compare these two notebooks and tell me which one you would really choose if you did an Oranges to Oranges comparison lol.
Seriously, you get more for your money with a PC over a MAC. Plus, people don’t always care about brand… they care about value. Kinda just the facts.
$999.00 Apple® – MacBook® with 13.3″ Display
2gb ram / 120gb hd 2.0 gHz core 2 processor. 256mb NVIDIA GeForce 9400M
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9218358&type=product&id=1218060783906
$$999.00 HP dv7-1275dx 4gb ram / 500gb hd Core 2 duo 2.13 gHz
512mb NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9166626&type=product&id=1218041150734
Microsoft has been the leading innovator long before Windows hit mass media. All users of it include: schools, corporations, Universities, small businesses, and maybe even our own Governments. The only influence Mac really has is its style; not the value it can substantiate. Then again, isn’t that always the way?
Wow you need to read up on history on how they instantly dominated the industry. Not by innovation as you say.
•BASIC was a language that had been around
for years, and made computers easier to program than programming the machine code. So they stole computer time from a College (you aren’t supposed to use University resources for private commercial projects), and they reworked some stolen (er, borrowed) BASIC code (you aren’t supposed to sell things derived from public domain code).
•Mary Gates (Bill’s Mom) and a high level Executive at IBM (Akers) were chatting (they were both involved in the United Way), and it became known that IBM was looking at getting into the Microcomputer business.IBM chose a product that Bill didn’t even have, and gave him an awesome contract.Bill Gates didn’t even have a DOS, but he convinced IBM he was almost finished with one.
•Microsoft then bought DOS off someone else (Seattle Computings’ Quick-and-Dirty OS, QDOS). This product was actually a cheap rip-off (clone) product of a friend of Gates (Gary Kildalls’ CP/M), and Bill knew it. They had actually had a gentlemen’s agreement; that Bill Gates wouldn’t do Operating Systems, and Gary Kildall wouldn’t do languages. Also Seattle Computing was mislead on the value of the contract, and the intent of it’s usage, and sold cheap for $50,000 (a fraction of what it was worth).
So begins PC-DOS Microsofts IBM labeled OS on all PC, then clones. Locking out all other IBM based OS.
Even though I bought a Mac I don’t think I would ever get rid of PCs in my house. Not only are there tons of games and apps for it, but I actually LIKE Windows.
Microsoft Movie Maker vs. Imovie…..need I say more….LMAO LOL ahhhh hahahah hahaah
Thank You …I am out!!!!
http://www.twitter.com/chuckiem
There is no doubt in my mind that Windows is a better deal than Mac. The OP’s comments about “I wonder if the perceived value of Microsoft in the younger demographic” is flat out wrong. Anti virus software is free from almost all ISP’s now a days. And there are many free online options too. Google apps give users anything they need with docs, gmail, etc. If you don’t want those, there is always open office. There are also plenty of great image editing software available too, like Gnome. Plus, the built in image and movie editor for Vista is plenty good for 99% of users. The ignorance comes in to play when tech bloggers think their “power user” Mac habits are the norm.
What’s really funny is I’m a Linux user! I don’t even own a Mac, so I can’t possibly have any power user Mac habits.
What’s **not** funny is your sloppy journalism.
Or are you merely flamebaiting?
You start Vista and you get angry with it after 2 minutes.
You start OS X and you get to work quickly and relaxed.
Stress free is worth paying for.
Mac users working:
working the Blog
working the Internet
working the Email
working the iLife
working the iMovie
working the iWork
Stress free and cool at Starbucks while everyone watches!
PC users are suckers at some job with a boss using crap software to do boring work on very uncool computers.
I don’t believe that the Mac comes with a free Office suite of software. I bought a Mac two years ago and had to buy my own MS Office for Mac or work with the Mac office suite or download something like OpenOffice.
And just because there are no viruses for the Mac does not mean you don’t need AV. Additionally there is free AV available for Windows machines – Avast, AVG, etc.
Am not sure if the author knows what he is talking about or acting plain dumb.
i dont know.. i still think apple is cooler!
OSX is the main value!
Windows is constantly telling you when things succeed — like it wants to be congratulated on doing what it’s supposed to do. “New hardware detected! You’ve attached a camera! I found a driver! Do you want me to open the pictures or copy them or sing a song? The camera is now connected and working!” There are balloon tips popping up in the taskbar and notification area periodically, letting you know that whatever you’re doing is not important, because Windows just found a new wireless network! Hey, Windows just updated your time thanks to daylight Savings! Thought you should know! hey, you have unused icons on your desktop!! Do you want me to help you clean them up? Icons are hard! Stop what you’re doing and pay attention to me!
The assumption in the Windows OS interface is that things are going to fail — that at any moment the computer could simply explode and kill everyone in the room, and if things go well it should get a pizza party like the winner of the Special Olympics.
On the Mac, it is assumed things will succeed. If you plug in a new piece of hardware, it just shows up ready to use.
“I wouldn’t get very far in life if I addressed every complaint someone has with one of the lame comments I make.”
Dude, as one of the posters pointed out, the majority of the comments are about “your lame Office argument” and the comment about AV.
There are other comments too and you addressed those with your ‘value’ post. Let’s get some thoughts on this Office and AV point.
So after ridiculing each and every advt by MS on how dubm these ads are specially by Techcrunch so called experts , MS has proven they are smarter and they know what msg they are conveying through these ads.
Yeah but then again those who write in TC are just bloggers…opinions here are a dime a dozen (and are mostly based on personall notions, not facts) and to bend that dozen you’d at most hand a quarter ;)
“I wonder if the perceived value of Microsoft in the younger demographic has more to do with ignorance?”
This ignorance is yours. Consumer Reports recently ran a test of different anti-virus/firewall software, and while the paid products got better scores it was mostly due to the level of customer support offered. Either way, the free products tested scored well. In regard to MS Office, Apple users have to buy that too. In any case, ever here of torrents?
I’m sure the people buying these products would rather have a BMW than a Honda Civic. Money talks. The PC/Mac purchase decision is the same.
Except in this case Windows and Mac actually perform at the same level.
Measure the total experience. Its not just about 0-60 times with a car. Its handling, fit and finish, etc. The same goes with a laptop.
“I wonder if the perceived value of Microsoft in the younger demographic has more to do with ignorance?”
You fucking tool. There’s my ignorant response.
Another reason I bought a Mac is that although I’m perfectly happy with Vista, I would have felt compelling to upgrade both of my computers to Windows 7. And even though you can use it “free” for about a year, that could potentially be expensive. I don’t think MS will offer cheap upgrades, although maybe they will.
So sort of jumped ship and bought a Mac. My two Vista PCs will remain at Vista unless MS gives me W7 for something on the order of $50 per upgrade of each PC.
Also, Windows 7 ran like hell on my fairly new laptop. This is a computer than came with Vista x64, so it should have worked well, but didn’t. Hopefully that will be corrected but you never know…
It’s been said already, but the Windows machine is simply better value for the money. I like Macs too (they are very cool!), but when it comes to actually spending my own cash, I go with windows every time, and I’ve never really experienced much frustration with any of my computers over the years.
very interesting!
Is it okay to just use Malwarebytes as a free virus zapper and just get teh free updates?
I bought a netbook for my girlfriend on which I installed AVG/OpenOffice so I guess I’m “special”.
You would still need to buy office software even for the cheapest Mac and people still buy AV software for Mac/Linux even if it is redundant (just to feel safe).
I’m typing this from the last Mac I will own in a very long time, personally I want to dump this Mac because of bad service and reliability. Essentially an Apple firmware update hosed my DVD while under warranty but I still ended up having to pay 500 USD to fix it since Apple won’t admit anything wrong (even though the particular firmware “vanished” from their website amid screams in the forums). The 500 included joining the premium service which I never used and I needed to pay since I was not in the USA when it happened and by the time I got to the USA the warranty expired…
This is no different from any other PC company behavior, but at least with a PC I get software compatibility a cheaper price and less condescending “cult”. I’ll probably be flamed into oblivion by people who had a “great” apple experience and can’t imagine anything else.
Personally I find Apple ridiculously opaque and annoying where people forgive apple the sins that wouldn’t be forgiven for the likes of MS (of which I am no fan at all). E.g. DRM, closed standards, forced upgrades and fast product EOL.