We posted this earlier this morning, but I want to weigh in since this is up my alley. I’m not entirely sure why people continue to compare the Red to consumer cameras. I mean, the price difference alone puts them in different categories, not to mention the format, resolution, and gear suite. Yet constantly I see people making comparisons like this one, and I can’t for the life of me figure out what they mean to prove. It’s like comparing a couple quick little rice rockets against a Lamborghini Murcielago, and then having them race around your yard. Sure, you could draw conclusions from it, but you’re kind of missing the point.
Of course, it’s not necessarily the case that whoever made this video intended to equate the cameras in any way (the objective, aside from filming women in the dark, is unclear). But if they did, let’s look at this objectively.
Here we have three great cameras. One a micro four-thirds compact, one a full-frame pro DSLR, and one a professional digital cinema camera (two years old, for the record). You can take video under similar circumstances, but unless you’re prepared to put in the work to make each video look as good as it should, it’s a useless comparison. Putting a video on the web, even to a high-quality video site like Vimeo, is not the way to compare three cameras.
The 5D mk II records directly to h.264; this is a perfectly good codec for distributing video, as it is highly efficient, but the way the video data is stored and streamed makes it messy when editing and lossy in color correcting. The GH1 uses high-bitrate AVCHD but apparently wraps the 24p mode in 60i, which is something I’ve had to deal with and it’s a pain in the ass. Lastly, both cameras use a recombination method for producing the final image, illustrated here. This leads to strange artifacting and Moire effects.
The Red One (to say nothing of its upcoming replacements) records to a proprietary high-bitrate, high-color-depth RAW format, using as many pixels you want from the sensor and not recombining at all. This produces an enormous, highly detailed, and very flat-looking image which can be manipulated as much as a RAW image from your DSLR. It’s made for actually making movies, real movies, and is high-res enough that they can apply special effects directly, which normally require a higher resolution than the editing footage.
But when you take a few seconds of footage at a time, in situations with really bad lighting, and then resize the whole thing down to a web-streaming 720×480 file, you lose all the details that might have set any apart. I’d say that any differences you notice in this video are the result of chance or the lens.
I’m not advocating getting a Red over getting a 5D mk II or GH1, they’re three different cameras that happen to shoot video and beyond that they’re incomparable. I personally would love to have all three, and I’d value what they did in different circumstances. The 5D’s full-frame sensor makes it easier to use and set up in the dark than either a Red or GH1; the GH1’s compact size makes it an easy carry-around; both are much more convenient to use than a Red, which weighs a huge amount and requires thousands and thousands in extra gear to shoot right. And if I had to pick one, I’d get the 5D, since I’m primarily a still photographer and if I did need to shoot something serious, a careful cinematographer would be able to avoid the 5D’s weaknesses pretty well.
So that’s about 500 more words than needed to be said on this, but these comparisons persist after so long that I feel I have to just engrave it on the internet that they’re not admissible evidence, and the whole idea of a comparison is silly anyway.
Fine, if I want my film to play in the cinema, there’s no comparison between the DSLRs and the Red. If I’m an independent filmmaker that’s interested primarily in home video, however, it’s significant that the GH1 can offer 24 fps, 60 fps, and a great depth of field for such a low price. Nothing wrong with looking great on Vimeo and YouTube.
oh, certainly. If that’s what you want, then the GH1 or upcoming GF1 is a great tool.
Wow. Devin, I see your point, but your argument
is silly.
which?
What? Wheres the iPhone? How are they not going to include the iPhone in a video comparison test?!
She’s hot
SOunds to me like the Author here works for RED camera’s… I think the GH1 looks F*ing great… I think that is what this Video Points out… I have had hands on with the RED one, it’s a great Camera, but this Video can show ProSumers some great things that can be done with Relatively cheap equipment… Let me just flat out say it… RED is still way too much damn money, If a 1500$ DSLR is doing Video this good, it’s not too long that their Next version will blow RED out of the water and still be 50x Cheaper…
Until and unless Canon or Panny put out an S35 or FF sensor camera that shoots RAW video at more framerate options, in particular 24p, it won’t matter if they’re 50x cheaper – they can’t compete on the same level.
Like the OP pointed out, it all depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.
Yes, you can drive fast in a rice burner, but it’ll never be a Lamborghini or a Bugatti.
If you’re a home user who wants to shoot good video for Youtube or Vimeo, get the GH1 – or wait for the fixed lens Scarlet ($4000 gets you shooting 3k RAW).
If you’re a pro-sumer, pick whatever fits your budget.
If you’re a pro, right now your choice is basically to get a Canon/Nikon DSLR and a RED ONE, or wait for the S35/FF Scarlet or Epic.
Just my $0.02.
@ “it’s not too long that their Next version will blow RED out of the water and still be 50x Cheaper…”
Wait. You mean 1/7th the price, right? Cause 50x cheaper would be less than one cent. I don’t think you mean that. And then you’re talking about RED One. The current version in RED’s (admittedly) 1 camera lineup. Compared to Canon’s “contender”. Also one camera.
Now if you want to talk all “future camera” on us, then let’s talk. How about RED’s “future cameras”, the EPIC and SCARLET’s. Yeah, let’s talk price, like 3k – 30k for the lower end killer app cameras, arguably a steal, and more arguably a huge game changer. Now, I know you’re going to be tempted to respond that those have been announced, and they’re not even out yet, and may never be. But I know you’re not a fool, cause that’s what you’d be if you started telling me not to talk “future camera” on you when ’twas you who brought it up in the first place.
My point is this: you want to get a Canon 5DMII? Think you can get great stuff from that little plastic machine now, and take care of YOUR needs? You think you can justify paying almost $3k on a body that no doubt has issues and problems which won’t be present on the next version, it being first gen and all? You think? GREAT!!!! Go get it. Have fun, learn a lot, pay for it by producing, and pave the way to buy lots of fun toys that come AFTER this one. Produce. Grow. Learn.
Personally, I don’t fancy the 5D – the handling, the footage, the images. I’m a Nikon guy. But after seeing this video, maybe we’re more wise to recognize how sick all three cameras featured can perform if in the correct hands. Yeah, I just admitted to thinking that 5D footy was fine. As in smoking. As in ass hot. Lucky for him (or her?), most 5D owners suck at shooting video, as do most Nikon owners, Panasonic owners, etc, etc, etc. So the ones that will come out on top are the same ones that always do. The real movers and shakers aren’t waiting for the “golden opportunity”. They’re out there using what you smugly refer to as fodder.
Now go make something to talk about.
come onnnnn you forgot to compare it to the most advanced camera up to date. iphone cam. lol
The RED is a professional camera, neither the GH1 or 5D MkII are considered “professional”. As with any professional camera, there are other things to consider than footage that “looks F*ing great”, hence why you’re comparing apples and oranges. RED’s true comparison is to cameras that cost upwards of 10 times it’s price, not DSLR’s that cost a few grand.
Both you and the author missed the point.
The Red camera makes a crappy image for the money. The GH1 and Canon 5Dmk2 make outstanding images for the money. Considering the Canon and Panasonic are being used on huge movies like Terminator means that they are in fact delivering professional results.
If you can get your hands on the PGA/ASC test you’ll see that the ASC decided the Red camera is UNACCEPTABLE for professional work.
“but why would I buy an outrageously expensive camera when the cheaper one looks almost the same on screen for what I’m doing??”
Answer: you shouldn’t.
OTOH, if you’re making movies. Real movies. Not youtube clips. Not home movies. Not viral marketing clips for web. If you’re shooting a movie that you’re hoping to slip into Sundance next year, well…this demonstration isn’t for you. It’s like trying to explain the difference between cheap music editing software and freeware. The newbs and amatuers might think Garage Band does everything Logic Pro does. If all you’re making is loops, sure, no difference. If you’re a pro tracking for other pros, you just roll your eyes, pat their heads and say, “sure…they’re exactly the same….”, because you know they’ll never understand the differences anyway.
Photography is an Art. Film making is an Art. Technology is a tool that can be used by artists.
As a 5DMII owner, person who has shot on Red One and many other HD digital cameras AND actual film (still and moving), I can honestly say that medium and creativity can create art only when skillfully working together.
Citizen Kane was black and white. Ishtar was color. Blair Witch was Hi-8. King Kong was 36″. Art is what you experience and remember. How you get there has more to do with talent and desire then technology.
Or said another way, better to get good with the tools you have then spend your time trying to always get better tools.
Josh
Finally, an intelligent comment that puts things into perspective.
@ “it’s not too long that their Next version will blow RED out of the water and still be 50x Cheaper…”
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
I’m pleased to see all cameras getting better and hopefully the next gen 5D Mk II will be even better and therefore push all others to do the same.
Alright, I have a Canon 5d ii a Canon XLH1 and a canon handheld HD camera. By far the 5D has better quality whether you show it streaming on the web or straight up on a tv. However I would rather use the XLH1 primarily because of the limitations that were briefly mentioned such as the lack of audio and specific video controls. It is easier to use the larger camera, and that is why you pay more for it. In my opinion the 5d was designed to be a awsome digital still camera with the option of shooting really sharp video. I think that if they added more hardwired controls specifically for video it would be much more appealing to film with. One other thing to consider is the size of the files that the 5D records. I know that this is true for most HD cameras however if you only want a camera that looks alright on youtube, than use a camera that uses smaller file sizes to begin with. In the last month I have shot over a TB of video. I know that there are other HD options that use significantly smaller file sizes.