The average mom and pop have judged digital cameras by megapixels alone since the beginning of time. Most people think that more megapixels means a better picture. A lot of the time brand, lens, or sensor type doesn’t factor into the buying decision and why should they? Manufacturers have long catered to this mentality by outing cameras that constantly have more megapixels than others. But today’s announcement of the 10MP Canon G11 point and shoot camera, Canon has officially dropped out of the race.
The predecessor to this camera, the G10, had a whopping 14.7MP on a small sensor. That’s a lot. But the camera also had issues shooting above 800 ISO and in low light. This can partly be blamed on the over-packed sensor. But the new G11’s 10MP sensor should resolve some of those complaints. However, the surprisingly low pixel count also caused us to dismiss an early leak. It’s not like Canon to drop the megapixel count on one of its halo cameras. This is from the same company that stuffed 21MP into the EOS 5D Mark II and leapfrogged the 12.1MP Nikon D700.
But finally the average consumer might start to understand that megapixels are not the sole factor in the quality of a camera. It might take some explaining from a salesmen, but they have been doing that for years.
I sold digital cameras at Circuit City from 2000 to 2004 and know first hand the buying mentality of most people. The first rule in sales is to understand that the buyer thinks they are an expert. Most of the time, they have talked to family members, who are also experts, seen something on Good Morning America, or even ventured onto the Internet in search of advice. Most of these people aren’t dumb or arrogant, they just don’t want a sleazy salesman to take advantage of them. But as soon as the salesmen points them in the direction of a modest priced Nikon or Canon, over a higher megapixel no-name, they get leery.
It eventually takes some calm reassuring and print samples to prove that there are more important aspects of a camera than just the megapixel. I can remember talking a lot of folks out of the 8MP Sony DSC-F828 and into the original 6MP Digital Rebel. The Sony had an astounding 8MP for the time (2003-2004), but it was heavy and had lots of performance quirks. The trouble was the the Digital Rebel only had 6MP and that didin’t justify the $900 price for a lot of people. But the camera had a great CMOS sensor and was backwards compatible with all the EOS lens. A win-win.
Hopefully this move by Canon to include less megapixels into the G* series means that the company is willing to move past megapixels. Hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit and include better sensors rather than more megapixels. Hopefully consumers will catch on. Hopefully.
I love my Rebel XT!
Love my XT and XSi.
I have G9 and I am sure G11 will be as good as this overpriced and overpraised syit
I donno how you guys could survive with play plastic toys.
A camera with a 4 MP to 8 MP range with a 35mm Sensor is what i want for $500.
Coherency of thought doesn’t have a megapixel value. :/
I have a Nikon d40 , its 6M ! and it shoots wonderful pics.
As do I – wonderful product.
I have an older 6MP Canon D60. I love it.
It is interesting actually. My 12 MP 5D does what I need it to for the most part. I’d love to have the 5DII so I could make 30×40 prints or larger however.
All depends on the consumer and who the camera is geared towards. For a point and shoot – I can’t imagine ever needing more than 10 MP.
At the same time though – does this really mean they are dropping out of the MP race? Or maybe just cost-cutting to help out on image quality in this particular price-range?
I guarantee you that if you have a well-exposed photo that you don’t need to crop the piss out of, and a good lab, you can get a 5D image up to 30×40.
Also, as a working professional, 12-14 MP is the limit of what basically anyone could ever need in the land of non-medium-format. At some point, you begin to outresolve the lenses themselves.
And stuff almost never gets reproduced larger than 11×17 anyway.
When it needs to go big and be perfect, most/many of us still use M/F film.
At this point, I’d like to see more dynamic range out of digital bodies, as well as much more durable AND smaller/lighter weight form-factors.
Mark,
I could not agree more that consumer digital cameras have jumped the shark on the pixel race. And, you are right about the pixel race getting ahead of the lens quality on consumer cameras.
I have been a photographer and background material supplier in the motion picture industry for many years (MGM and Warner Bros.). Our common standard for high quality imaging has been the latest low speed Kodak or Fuji 35mm film. These films can produce image resolution of about 100 line pairs (2 pixels) per millimeter. That is about 34.5 MP for a camera with a standard 1:85 film gate. The new Panavision digital motion picture camera has three 12.2 MP sensors… about the same resolution – but different.
This image projects well on a screen over 60 feet wide. The same image quality on an 11” x 14” print requires about 6 MP.
The bigger issue, which you brought up, is lens quality. Most point and shoot cameras do not have the lens quality to match their image sensors. A good zoom lens, from anyone, that can resolve a 12MP image, costs over $350. Panavision lenses rent for over $1,000 per day. The optics (lens) that can actually resolve an image above 10MP are very expensive.
If you buy a consumer priced camera, with over 10MP image capture, you are wasting you money if your interchangeable lens does not cost more than your camera.
Randy Randall
Finally, always been against this MP war. Have myselft a Canon 350D, with “only” (according to some of my friends…) 8MP.
Always been enough, and i don’t have any problem to shoot at 1600 or 3200, and it does great on night shot (doing a lot of astrophoto).
Hopefully within 1 or 2 years, we’ll start seeing improvement on the cameras (sounds to me like the CPU Ghz war back in the time, but now it’s more about the architecture)
I always had an issue with customers that are experts, I worked in a garage and now as the “computer repair guy” and in both cases the users know more than me because their brother in law has a computer.
It cuts both ways. I’m a tech developer and for anything I don’t know I do thorough research first. I’ve given up on almost all salespeople knowing anything beyond just slightly better than what an average customer would know, especially at places like Circuit City (or Best Buy, or similar).
There are exceptions, of course. Smaller specialty stores typically have people who have worked as professional users or developers, or train really well.
I gotta say, I just did a row by row walkthrough of best buy and babies r us, and out-sold more equipment to more customers than the store clerks who were there.
I’m not saying they’re all bad, but if you don’t know how to put a G10 into continuous shot mode, or how to recline the seat on a Maclaren Quest, and that’s what you sell… Well, I just hope you’re not paid on commission. ;)
Nikon “dropped out of the megapixel race” with the D700 a year ago.. but people still look for more megapixels LOL
It’s not “Sony DSC-F282″ but “Sony DSC-F828″. :)
Whoops, thanks.
I’ve owned an F828 for years and on occasions have considered replacing it with something like G10, but it still doesn’t make sense. F828 is bulky, but G10 is not really pocketable either, and if you are going to carry something strapped around your neck, it might just well have a nice Zeiss lens.
Actually, you’d be suprised how much more convenient that difference in size is. The Sony would require it’s own bulky (and screams of expensive camera) case. Meanwhile, you can drop a G10 into a small to midsize purse and forget it’s there.
A warning for those of you considering purchasing a Canon G11 — there is serious design problem with the camera. It is quite common to get the dreaded “lens error” where you turn on the camera and the display indicates there is a problem with the lens and the camera shuts down. I purchased a G10 and used it very gently 2 times, and on the third time I got this error and the camera is now a useless brick. I have talked to a few camera store owners and this is evidently a huge problem that Canon has done everything within its powers to hide. Even though there are undoubtedly thousands of people experiencing this problem (search for “G10 lens error”), Canon’s own web site says very little about it. After paying $400 for a now useless camera, I have now lost all faith in Canon and will never purchase another one of their products.
So the camera isn’t out on the market yet, and you somehow know there’s a (carryover) design problem with it? Hi, Kreskin!
I owned a G10, and other than the body being made of too-soft aluminum (it fell from my hand onto my laminate floor on the right rear edge, bending the metal surrounding the back dial against the dial), I think it’s an awesome camera. If I had the same issue as you, I’m sure I’d think differently, but I never did. I think the body’s soft construction is more of a problem, but since I haven’t used or even seen or held a G11, I can’t make any claims about it.
Love my G9, it’s the perfect mid-step camera for someone starting to consider getting serious about their photography – all the bells and whistles, short of many additional lensing options.
If I had to do it all over again today, I’d probably get a G10/11 for serious work, and get the 3Gs for quick PnS work (poor 3G just sucks as a camera, but the new one is really acceptable for most stuff).
@Doug. I’m afraid I’m with Jasons on this one. We replaced our G9 with a G10 after the G9 just stopped (Canon cut us an upgrade deal). We’ve had the G10 about 6-8 months when (while on our big vacation mind you) it just stopped. Once bitten twice shy…and we’ve been bitten twice now. Not real excited about the G11.
I had the “lens error” on my SD200 4 or more years ago. I think it was called “Error E18″. Then I got an SD1000 recently. Within a year it too got the “Lens Error” and has died. You’re telling me a brand new Canon has the same error from over 4 years ago and thousands of complaints? Do a web search for these errors. You won’t want a Canon after that look. Sad.
Do you know what the error means? It probably means there’s something stuck in the gears. I had that issue with an old SD600 that had sand stuck between the gears. I took it apart and cleaned it and it works great. Should they seal these parts better? Yes. But you make it sound like a mythical error that no one understands.
performance quarks?
What happens to the semi-pro/pro market when these P&S cameras become so sophisticated and boast excellent sensors and 20 mpixels and mom & pop are shooting outstanding photos? Us photogs are then all out of a job!
The same thing that happened to master painters when quality brush and paint became cheap enough for the everyman…. there’s still plenty of “art” involved in producing a good image.
We have a long way to go until cameras actually compose shots for you.
Yes, but the painters still weren’t dumb enough to give away paintings to everyone who asked.
Photographers are a terribly stupid group of people, for the most part.
I would also argue that much of the technical know-how barrier-to-entry has been removed in the digital era. Instead of exposure, focus, being there and composition, and not killing things in developing, digital shooters now really need only worry about being there and composition.
That is such an over exaggeration. If you’re shooting for exposure and focus, with the goal of having you picture look good at more than 400×600px leaving your camera on autofocus will not get as good a picture as someone who knows what they’re doing while shooting on manual.
Also, on most of the auto-everything settings, the camera tries to get as much as possible into focus and eliminate bokeh (that nice blurred background effect most portraits have). They often achieve this by using the on camera flash, which generally makes everything in the picture look washed out and slightly scary.
The barrier to entry has definitely diminished now that photographers can take a picture and see how it turned out and then make adjustments and look at the results again, but I don’t think it’s gone entirely. If it were, I think my aunt would have taken some much better pictures of her son’s wedding last week.
…this is the dumbest post I have seen in a while.
Arguing that cameras advancement eliminate the art from photography is like arguing that HD video cameras will ruin Hollywood.
I shoot with a 5D Mark ii and I still am challenged by not only composition, but the technical dynamics (lens selection, flash, ISO, WB, exposure (Av or Tv), focal point, etc.). The post-processing (Lightroom, Photoshop, etc.) also requires significant skill.
The reality is that just like the shift from film-based movies to digital movies, it doesn’t require *less* skill, just *different* skills.
I feel like saying that manual focus is far more spot on it a far out accusation. Canon’s autofocus system may present those issues but they have yet to produce a decent one that allows for nailing depth of field.
We’ve observed this year on Retrevo.com more people starting to look at lower megapixel cameras that the year prior. While the economy is probably the biggest factor, forcing users to look beyond the “biggest, fastest” (i.e. most megapixels), we also see trends of people asking questions like if more megapixels means a better picture. Some are starting to get it and are looking at other features like ISO equivalent ratings for low light condition. Good to see Canon not pack more MP’s but rather build a better quality camera with less.
Everything follows the trends in porn. Last year, and the year before, it was the race to HD. This year, it’s “low-fi amateur”, because who needs to see every pimple? ;)
But, seriously, it’s good to see people start to see quality as a good thing in photography. I’m hoping for some kind of shot quality rating scheme… Maybe split by skill levels/purposes.
So it’s like woman getting larger and larger Breast implants. You can only get so big before the quality suffers eh? ;-)
Idiot.
Hero.
Absolutely spot-on! It’s not about the megapixels. What matters more in a camera is high ISO performance and sensor’s ability to capture a wide dynamic range.
~Eugene.
P.S. That should probably say “…the company is willing to move past megapixels” instead of “…the company is willing to move pass megapixels.”
I try not to shoot at ISOs over 800 unless I absolutely need to (I have a Canon XSi) but better performance at 3200 means less noise at 800 too.
Cars have horsepower, computers have clock speed. Customers want some way to directly compare products, and pixel count is a really handy one. I agree that more isn’t necessarily better, but what is the other number by which cameras can be compared?
Ha. Your paragraph about working at Circuit City for 4 years…. I did Walmart for 3 months… and I know that entire paragraph to be full of truthiness.
Nice article.
When I try to tell people that mega-pixels mean nothing, they ask what stat to look for. I tell them to look for detachable lens and the name Canon or Nikon. They want a stat.
This myth will continue until they start pushing the size of the sensor more. The size of the sensor needs to be a major part of the marketing.
This was my spin on the “Thank you cannon for dropping out of the megapixel race” story. It is easy for the average consumer to understand. Instead of puking up tons of specs and model numbers in an attempt to prove my knowledge, I focused on the reader. Imagine that.
Oh no, people might have to learn what is really important. This has irked me for quite some time. Just like the computer biz with the GHZ/MHZ race. It was always amazing to me that cameras were being rated by megapixel alone just as computers were being rated solely on processor speed. The average consumer did not know to look at stats such as the system Bus speed, memory speed etc etc. It was crazy, 2.9 GHZ, 3.2, 3.8 up and up it went yet the bus speed was staying the same. It’s essentially the same thing as driving an Indy car on the sidewalk. The system Bus speed is the road and the processor speed is the car. This is why you may have noticed that the processor speed is no longer being used as the sole selling point. People get a mindset and the manufacturers instead of trying to educate the public they get in a numbers war to keep market share. Once the GHZ war’s were over we finally started to see progress again in the form of system Bus speed, the number of Cores etc. I hope this is what will happen with cameras. With luck, in time consumers SHOULD catch on and start understanding that it is a system of sensors, processors, lenses etc that determine the cameras ability as a whole.
Yes B&h Photo has a full write up and information on canon g11 camera at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/643177-REG/Canon_3632B001_PowerShot_G11_Digital_Camera.html
Thanks
I figured this out just by results: my 4 megapixel camera takes WAY better pictures than my 6 megapixel camera, and the difference is obvious. The one thing I’ve been unable to find a clear explanation of is: What factors DO determine picture quality and in what way? It’s such an obvious question, but the answer seems very hard to find.
I’m all about the G series of Cameras from Canon. I own and love my G9. Didn’t upgrade to the G10 and was looking forward to the G11…. i’ll pass.
Why? No HD video, not even 720P.
Seriously Canon, you missed the mark on this one.
Sure if the G11 had HD video I wouldn’t use it for anything serious, but it sure as hell would be handy and most of the cams coming out these days DO have at least 720P video capabilities.
I’m looking forward to the rumored Panasonic GF-1 which is basically a G11 WITH HD video and removable four thirds lenses.
Or the Panasonic GH1… if it ever comes out on stores and out of backorder here in the U.S.
The megapixel race needs to die and along with it the Zoom race (not to mention the Digital Zoom race). When people ask me what they should look for instead, I tell them “quality in low-light” and “wide angle is more important than zoom” (for pocket cameras). Unfortunately, these are harder to determine than megapixels. At least camera reviewers are starting to focus in the right places more (pun intended).
… not to forget the revival of the Canon S-Series, the new S90 with the same sensor as the G11.
Both cameras seem to be outstanding, both support RAW-files and both have the same solid 10MP sensor – good step by Canon in my eyes.
I always felt the megapixel wars were more about marketing oneuppsmanship than about utility for the average consumer.
I’ve got a Canon 20D with a 8.2 megapixel sensor and I was printing 13″x19″ photos with it that looked great. So how many people need that in a point and shoot or prosumer model?
I am a lame consumer which translate to your average consumer, if I see a 15mp camera and a 10mp camera, no brainer on what I would get.
Hi reddit. Thanks for modding us up.
“if I see a 15mp camera and a 10mp camera, no brainer on what I would get.”
You are absolutely right, no doubt about it. It is a complete *no brainer*. No brains at all. If all you looked at was MP, and MP only at the same price range, you deserve to be disappointed with the low quality shots you will get.
I still use the original Digital Rebel (6MP) and the pictures are still brilliant.
Searched around for quite awhile for a camera with good low-light performance that was still small enough to carry in my pocket. Finally came across the Fujifilm F30fd. Sadly, about the time I discovered it, Fujifilm dropped the camera and joined the megapixel insanity. Still looking…
I use a Canon G10 and it’s perfectly adequate for prints up to A3. Base ISO between 80-100 is recommend but I have achieved excellent quality from ISO 400. I also still use a Panasonic LC-1, only 5mp but the Leica lens coupled with a film like quality image makes up for lack of pixels. people often prefer the slightly grainier when I show them prints. I won’t be interested in the G11 unless the samples show that the noise is significantly better.
Nice! Now if they’d only put a prime on it so we could shoot outside of the hilariously narrow f/2.8-f/8.0, I’d actually buy one.
An end to the MP war is not an unalloyed good. It has driven sensor technology, increasing resolution and decreasing price. Many imaging apps are thresholded on increased resolution. Spacial resolution can be traded for other things.
Would I want a *one hundred* MP sensor in a point and shoot? Of course. It would be great to have images at the current resolution, but HDR, and with angular information to allow later refocusing.
I love my 5D MKII. I like being able to make 24″x36″ prints for my clients with out having to jump through hoops to make sure it’s utterly sharp when it arrives on their door step.