Gene Munster of 1313 Mockingbird Lane and Piper Jaffray is positing that because the Apple TV isn’t doing so well that Apple will soon sell a TV with Apple TV features built-in, an idea so ludicrous that it caused me to spit out my Metamucil.
Let’s look at his reasoning: the Apple TV is “losing ground” to other subscription services – I’d argue it’s lost ground to everything and is now, in its current incarnation, an also-ran – and so Apple will create a DVR combo/download system with Hulu, Joost, FARK, Digg, JDate, and other web services built-in. So that’s not so far fetched, right? But get this: Munster thinks a TV is also in the cards.
An Apple television set within the next two years that could wirelessly sync with iPods, iPhones and Macs. “Such a device would command a premium among a competitive field of budget TVs; we believe Apple could differentiate itself with software that makes home entertainment simple and solves a pain point for consumers (complicated TV and component systems).”
He’s got all the points right – Apple sells at a premium, Apple thinks different, Apple can solve pain points – but he gets one thing wrong: TVs are so off Apple’s message that he might as well be proposing the manufacture and sale of spear-fishing gear.
Apple is in the living room race, to be sure. But a TV isn’t the way they’re going to win it. The set-top box is much more logical and they could build a kick ass DVR inside a sexy little box. They sell hardware with an upgrade cycle of about eight months – a year on the topside – so for them to blow out a TV would be non-conducive to their goals. Something smaller that sits next to the TV can be upgraded an infinitum. Most folks keep their TVs for years, even decades. Why would Apple want to be in that market?
Apple knows it’s got a winner with the iPhone OS and an App Store-containing, video-streaming, DVR-ing UberApple TV is a sure bet. However an Apple TV TV? Not so much.
Predicting Apple’s next move is an industry.
LOL. True.
Not really. Their next move is to largely fall over because they’re trying to tie everything to one premium product whilst their competitors are undercutting them on cost and offering equivalent or better functionality.
Unless they wake up and vary the iPhone product range it’s going to end badly for them.
Predicting Apple’s demise is an industry.
Indeed.
That’ll be $5 please.
Would you buy a TV developed by Apple? – Global poll being taken at http://qulse.com/q.jsp?id=25
Who cares, really?
Lookie there! It’s Mr. Limpet!!!
Thanks Mr. Biggs for reminding me of this movie!
I often thought about this and it never made sense to me. Apple wouldn’t do it now for sure, it just doesn’t make sense but in the future, I could see Apple finally take a dip into the television market. I doubt they’ll be successful but then again, that’s what many said about Apple venturing into the smartphone market. http://ziggytek.com/
seeing as a 30″ apple display is $1800 i would think it would be a waste of time and effort on apples part. Makes it roughly $2200 for a 30″ inch with built in apple tv. Which would make me guess a 42″ being roughly $3500
It sure will be hell of a lot expensive. Although, it’s possible that Apple might partner with the cable providers to offer this TV at a discounted price with contract. Think about your entertainment center with just ONE screen and nothing else. Your cable box, DVR, DVD/BluRay player everything embedded into that one sleek screen.
So, at that discounted price with contract, it would fly off the shelves, just like the iPhone did. iPhone without contract is $600/$700, which is way too expensive if anyone was expected to buy off hand.
Did you see Apple making a phone before they did it? I don’t think a TV is that far fetched. Who’s battling for the living room right now? Computers and TVs.
Joseph Kingsbury, Text 100
I agree with you, Joseph. I don’t think a TV is far-fetched. We must remember that ‘Apple Computer, Inc’ has been ‘Apple Inc’ since 2007, a sure sign that it is open to disrupting other markets aside from its traditional computing remit – in fact that was its stated aim upon announcing the change.
The mobile phone sector was and is extremely competitive, but Apple nonetheless introduced the iPhone. There’s no compelling reason why they couldn’t or wouldn’t offer a TV, though some of the hypotheses above do advise caution and rightly so.
Personally, I think that an Apple TV set would work if that device was made to fit in interesting ways into the rest of the Apple ecosystem. If you can find cool ways to link your iPhone, iPod touch, your iMac and perhaps AirPort Extreme, the more compelling the offering.
A truly convergent TV experience, combining cable/satellite broadcasting, Internet TV, access to the App Store and iTunes Store more widely, the ability to access your iMac or MacBook through it remotely, etc., may be compelling enough to become popular.
They have admitted before that their Apple TV box is a kind of ‘hobby’, but I believe they are in the TV business for the long-term and I think they will evolve their TV products and gain more momentum. Whether an Apple TV could ever gain the traction of iMac or iPhone is another matter.
All I know is that if Apple made a TV set, it would be a pretty impressive bit of hardware, with features not found elsewhere. Steve Jobs would allow nothing less.
I saw it coming since I got my 3rd Gen iPod (video) in 2005. It only made COMPLETE sense to have a PDA and an iPod be the same device.
Why is this so far-fetched? I would buy one in a heartbeat.
For a lot of people like me, just dealing with multiple controllers and incompatible boxes is a reason alone to go “all apple”.
I welcome the apple TV, highfi, radio etc…
Agree. They could solve a lot of current issues. However, fix the current apple tv box and show some sort of path that enables them to make the leap. Right now, I don’t see it. I hope they announce upgrades next month but not counting on it.
If anyone could pull off a tv that could be upgraded
from the net to improve function. I wouldnt rule
out Jobs and Apple.
Not completely sure, but I believe it has already been done. My Samsung has an Ethernet port on the back – but I’d have to go and read the documentation again to divine its use.
I know it has something to do with updating.
IMO, Microsoft does a far better job at upgrading hardware with software to improve functionality. Examples: Zune, XBox 360. Sadly, Apple has a few things to learn from Redmond in this aspect.
I’m writing this on my MacBook so don’t even bother calling me a M$ (yes, it’s 1999) fanboi.
“and so Apple will create a DVR combo/download system with Hulu, Joost, FARK, Digg, [b]JDate[/b], and other web services built-in.”
I love this.
Is there a way to format the apple tv crap os from my apple tv hardware and install boxee?
I wish Apple would come out with DVR. I don’t understand why it is so hard for Tivo to get multi-room support on their Series 3 devices
Why wouldn’t Apple get into all kinds of consumer electronics devices? It’s an upsell to a very happy userbase and makes the ecosystem more complete. It’s a done deal IMO.
Gene Munster is full of crap. He’s just talking his ‘book’. The guy is a perma bull with all tech stocks.
That guy is always playing catch-up.
I very much look forward to the release of Apple’s new spanking TV! To be honest, I am looking forward to september with the release of the suspected new itouch, which I blogged about if you would like to see what the new itouch will offer http://techcombo.com/new-ipod-touch-to-be-released-in-september
Also, i’d love to see the competition between the Zune HD and the iPod Touch, right now my money is on the Zune :) Who know’s what Apple have up their sleeves, could be anything!
Does anybody know if the AppleTV is doing any better abroad? Although in the USA there are many options for catching TV on demand, iTunes and the AppleTV are much more attractive when you have less options.
It’s a dud in Australia. No-one has one here.
Gene Munster is Jobs’ tool.
“Why would Apple want to be in that market?”
Umm, I intend to keep my macbook for over four years (with hard disk drive upgrade). Am I a small minority?
yes
Is there any public data to back up that assertion, John?
Why not just place an operating system within the tv itself, seems alot easier. Maybe this initiative by apple will spur manufacturers to do so.
Streaming video to a TV is already part of the next generation of Blue Ray DVD players, such as LG-370 and 390 as well as some Samsung devices. Streaming Video technology will converge into devices we have already, making MS-Media Center Extenders, Apple TV and other seperate devices obsolete. Convergence into the TV itself is a logical next step.
Any reasonable person would hack the shit out of the apple TV and unleash it’s awesomeness. The thing is amazing after making a few changes; adding in the apple remote on the ipod and streaming from iTunes. I think you need to reposition a few things here.
Yes it’s software is a nightmare, but is Apple were to open it up a bit (which is what the hacks accomplish) it’s a finer machine than most on the market.
Bernie!
I thought you died in “Weekend At Bernie’s”.
Apple already makes kick-ass, premium displays, so why is a TV so far-fetched. I’m amazed that they haven’t done more than the Apple TV as they attempt the living room land grab.
Put simply, if Apple could give me a compelling reason to dump my Time Warner DVR in one room and Tivo in another, I’d be all over it.
I’m sorry, John, but you’re wrong on this one. What world do you live in that set-top boxes exist in the future?
The idea of it offering text-based content (e.g. Fark, Digg) is hilarious but I assure you this: Apple will sell a screen for your living room.
Once you stop thinking about it as a “television” and look at where that space is going to end up you may start to see how this is actually pretty obvious.
I don’t know if I would call the AppleTV an also ran…but then again I have one so I might be a little biased. We use it as a replacement for cable tv service…we get most of the shows we want without have a monthly cable bill. There is a lag of 1-3 days but who watches everything live anymore? The AppleTV experience is already pretty awesome and the HD catalog is steadily growing. The overall content catalog is fairly extensive, you can watch a fairly large selection of TV shows going back to the 70’s and movies going back to the 40’s. Unlike Hulu or other options we don’t have to screw around with dedicating a PC to the TV or connecting/disconnecting my laptop to the TV in order to watch something. The AppleTV is always plugged in; all we do is switch over to it like you would a DVD player.
Apple just hasn’t put the same marketing muscle behind AppleTV that they have their other products for one thing and they need to open the box up a little. The main upgrade needed, and hoped for by AppleTV owners is to localize iTunes to the AppleTV box. Currently it is tied to an iTunes installation on a computer that the AppleTV syncs with…which really sucks. If you could run and control multiple itunes account directly from the AppleTV and then sync across several devices….it would be a killer hardware/software application. It would be the media server ecosystem that Microsoft, Dell, Buffalo and others have been trying construct but have failed at so far. When you ad the AppleTV into the mix, Jobs has media distribution/presence on all three screens, TV, Desktop and Mobile. All the Apple would need to do is insert an ad serving technology into the ecosystem(currently no ads are displayed except in some podcasts) and they would have license to print money.
Lame article that’s all I have to say!!!
I wouldn’t rule out a version of Apple TV that doubles as a DVR as well as a game console. Think about it, Apple has already got thousands of indie game developers as well as big game studios. It’s time to bring the Game Appstore to the TV!
An Apple HDTV — not impossible. The LED monitor is amazing, and could see them upping the ante there.
First off, AppleTV truly sucks. I love my Mac Mini hooked up to my Samsung Series 8 58″ Plasma. It rocks, and with Front Row it makes Apple TV pointless. Plus I can use an app like Plex (http://www.plexapp.com/) and have my media center synched and organized.
Apple MUST make a TV.
It didn’t take the ROKR for Apple to see that the market for standalone music players was going to converge around the phone, so they had to change or loose that massive market they’d built up.
The failings of badly delivered horrors like Windows Media Centre do not diminish the fact that consumption of Internet services around the home is moving from the “family” desktop to the TV.
it’s amazing how even savvy Consumers are willing to accept the generally awful interfaces foisted on them by the likes of LG, Sony and Toshiba, and these weaknesses are getting stretched beyond breaking.
Yes there are set top boxes a plenty, and the playing nice with Cable companies is the biggie to overcome, but if Apple can converge IP, entertainment, memory storage, and family “productivity” (there is such a thing!) around one very friendly, great looking hunk of sleek that sits in the living room and (crucially) is available where Joe-public actually go to buy TVs – they could be on to gold. They can have my money.
There was a time when the idea of Apple making a cell phone was ludicrous. Simply ludicrous.
Don’t rule them out of anything.
If they sell a TV that looks like a gigantic iphone like the one in the display windows..I’m in.
one thing is for sure. APPLE WILL NEVER MAKE A DVR !!!, nor will they ever have a coax input on any apple device ever ever ever
Personally, I have been waiting for the 42″ iMac for some time. I would gladly hang it on my wall…I think that is exactly what Apple are going to do. There is no better place to act as the hub for the home than the trusty TV spot. As Kevin Kearney said, stop thinking about it as a TV…
they’re already manufacturing high-quality LCDs. turning that into a TV seems like a pretty simple (relative to a full blown computer) process. if anything, i’m surprised Apple hasn’t done this already. the big hitch is that the space is already crowded, and commoditized, and Apple–if it sells a TV product at a premium (likely)–won’t ever have massive market share.
I’ve already done it, and added an entire newborn platform to it as well.
TV’s are not so off Apples message. You are the one that is off on your message. Apple produced a 30 inch LCD High Def screen that graphic designers and others love. Apple should have done this a long time ago. I have been telling friends that Apple will release a TV for the past 2 years, I am shocked that they have not done so yet. They would be crazy not to get in on the action. Why sell a Sony LCD at the Apple store with one of your products – when you can sell a LED or LCD Television set of your own, with everything built into it. Do you remember the Apple TV? Probably not.
“TVs are so off Apple’s message that he might as well be proposing the manufacture and sale of spear-fishing gear.”
Your hyperbole doesn’t work in this case. They have stores all over the world that sell LCD displays and other consumer electronics.
Apple is increasingly a Consumer Electronics company. Still, to make a play for the living room, a proper set top box with Apple styling and a serious effort at refashioning the viewing experience, is the way to go. In this instance, Apple should probably buy Tivo. It makes more sense to buy their way into the segment, gaining a base that has self identified by already owning set-top box of course. Tivo is a great service and they may be doing wonderfully. However there has been some uncertainty on and off over the years. This might be behind them I don’t know. For Tivo customers an Apple buy might seem a saving grace. Whatever the case, the Apple brand isn’t likely to be frowned on.
With such a purchase, I’d expect Apple to do for the set-top box what they’ve done for the music player segment. I am a fan of home automation and have been clamoring, in my own way, for Apple to take on the segment. To Apple, the set-top box presents an opportunity to do both set-top boxes and home automation. How? Start with the living room by allowing ‘Movie Mode’ to modify not only the electronics in the living room, but the electricity. By allowing users of Apple set-top boxes to control the entire environment addresses the entire viewing experience. Even though we’re only talking individual user settings which already exist and a few lamps and light switches, the whole experience is something most have never had, but might expect from Apple.
A push on the TV side seems like a possibility. Maybe that is the reason they are setting up a 500,000 sq ft data center.
http://www.cultofmac.com/interview-apples-gigantic-new-data-center-hints-at-cloud-computing/14680
Apple could never be profitable in the TV market because of their unprofitability in the display market. It’s not a farfetched idea that Apple would simply rebrand a really nice display as their own and manufacture what is now the Apple TV hardware inside of the display. In fact, this is such a large probability to me that I’ve been regretting spending $1200 on another plastic pile of TV.
When the iPhone launched I posted on this blog that it would be a game changer for the industry. Almost everyone of you laughed me off this blog. Obviously after the sales of the iPhone and its apps have hit the stratosphere it’s not such a laugh anymore. Apple will enter the TV market. They will use an outside vendor and keep it within price point. It will be great and everyone who buys it will love it and the service. Keep laughin’
Just as the “cell phone” is becoming more computer than “phone,” so will the “TV”. What makes a TV a TV? It’s just a means of delivering content, and we all know that the content consuming experience can be enhanced with computers. Apple has demonstrated that it knows how we like to interact with content, whatever the delivery mechanism.
I just got an Apple TV last week, and I absolutely love it.
If Apple could somehow make the experience even better by integrating more closely with an actual TV, I’d definitely take a look. However, I’m skeptical that Apple would actually start selling TVs.
Apple is looking to source the TV from Sharp Electronics — they have been in negotiations for about 6 months now.
This TV will be full of bugs and constantly out of stock if they rely on a crappy manufacturer like Sharp.
I can see Apple selling a TV if that’s the only way they can make the user interface really easy. Many people can’t figure out remotes now and can’t figure out how to connect their PC to their TV. I think it makes sense. It doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a box that is part of the TV that the consumer can upgrade every year or so.
The argument made against Apple doing a TV here is that it is “so off Apple’s message.” I don’t think that is true. Apple is all about developing both software and hardware while leading the way in smartly converging platforms. They went into phones – at the time, would that have sounded any more logical? Even when they first started making music players?
There may be cost/price issues which make Apple TV illogical, but I think it may in fact be very much consistent with Apple’s brand and history to develop the primary hardware for entertainment consumption in the living room.
would you buy a phone from an ipod company?
I want one. I want a large iPod touch that I can hang on my wall, browse through the multiple calanders I have synced to my iPod touch now, watch the movie I downloaded from iTunes and be able to access my apps like the recipes and losing weight.
Actually, I want one for my living room, kitchen, and bedroom. I want them to all sync even with my future iPhone. Apple would be crazy to not sync my household. I could enter a new item on to my shopping list and email it from the giant iPod touch hanging on my wall to my husband on his way home from the gym. You people are thinking too small.
If Apple would just build native streaming, from iTunes, into the iPhone / iPod touch OS (like the 3rd party http://www.simplifymedia.com allows for), then you could just put your iPhone / iPod into a dock connected to your TV and stream audio and video to that screen. This would fill in the gap for the folks, like me, that will never buy an Apple TV device.
Guys.. Apple’s tvs are so much better than any other tvs. they don’t get viruses and they’re just better.
Sometimes I told myself the Apple TV not so popular just like iPhone and iPod. But it truly a interesting gadget.
4Media Apple TV Video Converter for Mac
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4Media Apple TV Video Converter for Mac enables you to convert most of popular video formats to Apple TV Video MP4 formats. The output files can also be applied to Video iPod, iPod 30GB and 80GB and iPod touch together with the resolution for 640 x 480. Having this fantastic conversion software, you can enjoy the brand-new digital entertainment life with your Apple TV and iPod.
Can’t wait
Thank you “Jeff” :)