Looks like EA finally understands what we’ve been talking about for a while now: that, in just a few years’ time, we’ll look back at disc-based media (here, video games) and be all, “Man, how quaint.” Peter Moore, who’s the president of EA Sports (no minor position, that), called the disc-based distribution model a “burning platform,” and that companies are either staring in the face of “probable” death or “certain” death, depending on how they want to go about things.
Moore was speaking at a digital media conference when he said what he said.
And that’s what makes the PSP Go such a punch in the gut. Had Sony ponied up for a proper Wi-Fi connection (802.11g or higher) then you’d have a mean little system there. Well, a potentially mean little system, provided the software was there. (I’m not saying that it’s not there, just that it needs to keep being there. Yeah.) But maybe Sony was looking at it as just something to test the waters with, what do I know?
The fact is, it’ll soon make zero sense to want to go to the store (or wait for the UPS man to bring you your Amazon order) when you can just download (or stream) all your junk. That’s the idea, of course. Who knows what forces will see to it that the distribution model fails.
“The fact is, it’ll soon make zero sense to want to go to the store (or wait for the UPS man to bring you your Amazon order) when you can just download (or stream) all your junk. ”
Fine then, heres some sense:
1. I can’t resell anything I download digitally
2. I can’t buy anything digital used, “used” data dosen’t even make sense.
3. I can’t lend it to a friend.
4. I can’t borrow it from a friend.
5. For consoles, I can’t shop around, it would basically be a monopoly as the only store will be the “official” one from the manufacturer. Say goodbye to pricecuts, sales, and competitive pricing.
Wake up, the only rascon the publishers give a rat’s ass about Digital Distrobution is because they can turn it into a 1984-like world with full control over and and all media they sell you through the channel. They want to eliminate renting, second hand, borrowing or lending a game to a friend, etc. THIS is why they want DD, they have already proven this gen that they can’t be trusted, look at how insane the DLC scene on consoles is!
EA especially, there coulden’t be a publisher that is more greedy, and this is the SOLE reason they want to go DD. So people can’t buy last year’s Madden for $10, they will be forced to buy the current version, at $60, YEAR ROUND.
Fuck DD, is the thought of *gasp* getting off your fat ass and actually going to the store THAT unplesant that you are willing to bend over and let everyone rape you just so you can continue to meld with the couch, or not have to order online and wait up to *gasp* 3 days?
Why do the pro-dd advocates never realize this?
I don’t care if you don’t mind being raped and controlled by the companies you purchse from, I would rather OWN the fucking media I pay for.
At least on the PC scene there is competition, but if its consoles it will be hell.
@Cyber Akuma
agreed.
i’m old school, pro-game sharing and liking a physical copy of a $60 game. the only way i could ever go fully DD would be if:
1. there is no way they can DELETE the game after purchase. i own it, i do with it as i please. no remote kill switches.
2. ability to redownload game unlimited times, ability to also put on 5 consoles that are activated to my psn account (am ok that it can only be played on one console at a time, thats fair)
3. ability to create a physical dvd backup for offline keeping. (drm understandable however, create it so that for say $5, you can unlock the drm for one account activation and then allows me to sell it to a pal, i just have to front the $5 fee to unlock drm until next console activates it)
just my .02
3.
@seamonkey420
To respond to all 3 of your “bullets,” Sony has a solution:
Media Go.
Look it up :D
@Cyber Akuma
There are such things as DD competition and price cuts. The PSN Store has already done/addressed both. Look at things like the Rag Doll Kung Fu promotion and the price cuts for the week the Go was released.
Suppose your disc gets scratched? It’s worse than a file getting corrupted. I’ll laugh as I simply re-download the game, as physical media owners get raped by the irreversible destruction of their tangible media.
What will you do when they finally get everyone downloading then start charging and/or restricting downloads so you have to pay more than once for the same thing?
If they make downloaded games DRM free, then fine, but do you really see that happening?
Ummmm…. Have any of you used the PSN store? You pay once, unlimited downloads. It’s just restricted to how many systems you can play the content on.
And honestly, say that does happen. What’s the difference of having a once downloadable file which can get corrupted from having a physical disc that can get scratched? You still have a more portable system with the Psp Go over the 1000-3000 series
“What’s the difference of having a once downloadable file which can get corrupted from having a physical disc that can get scratched?”
Typically, THE ENTIRE HARDDRIVE DIES instead of a single file getting corrupted, so you lose EVERY game at once.
I can still take out my NES and play it, can you say the same of a download-only console 10-20 years after its been released? Do you think the servers will still be online? Once the servers are takwn down, and they WILL be taken down, the you are depending on that drmed-to-hell HDD to last, once it dies, and it WILL die, your games are gone. At least if something happens to one of my games long after the system is dead, as long as it wasn’t a rare title, I can buy it again for pocket change.
And you STILL didn’t mention about about the points I made with renting, selling used, buying used, borrowing, etc.
yes, i am a very avid PS3/Wii user.
THERE IS NO WAY I CAN RESELL MY DIGITAL DOWNLOADS. thats all there is to it. i can activate another ps3 under my psn but i do not like having my info on other ppls ps3s.
with a physical game i just pop it out and bring it over, dd you can’t.
“It’s just restricted to how many systems you can play the content on.”
Physical media=however many systems I want.
Yes, the disc can get damaged, that’s a given. But I prefer not to be told what to do with something after I paid for it. That’s why I don’t like DRM downloads of any type!
You’re all forgetting a major player in this scheme. ISPs. I’m sure those business criminal assholes at Comcast would LOVE DD to be the standard. Then they’ll really slam you with bandwidth caps and whatever other fees they can come up with.
The benefits to the consumer of Digital Distribution would be great especially with Streaming Content (Such as OnLive offers) Streaming games would be incredible, but as mentioned in previous comments the competition problem (the lack of competition) is a huge stumbling block to this mode of distribution. I really hope it works out because it would make things a whole lot better but right now greedy distributors are getting in the way.
Akuma covers the cons pretty handily on this issue. IF we werent already living in a broken business environment driven by greed then perhaps this might have a chance. However, this is just another publisher play to milk consumers in the lucrative Apple vein and we know how they’re the devil incarnate. I have seen young kids lose thousands in music purchases due to hardware failure and a broken DRM system but thats okay … youre supposed to REBUY content! Bastards!
I have never pirated games, its been a principle with me and I enjoy the physical media and swapping games on the Goozex Social network. But if you shove DD down my throat to change my habits and kill the physical media you can say goodbye to my substantial retail business and I will go out of my way to support the pirate community any way I can. Ever hear the term, the customer is always right?
@Cyber Akuma
Name a 10+ year old system with which you can just go to the store and buy a game. Not even buy/re-sell stores like Gamestop carry anything Pre-GBA/PS2. Online servers will still exist. DD is still a new concept. You’re killing the possibility of not being able to purchase stuff off of Wii Shop Channel/XBLA/PSN in 10 years. You never know. It’s up to the company. Also, just because the company stops support of that system’s games, the system itself can still work independantly of the service, you just can’t add to it. An activated Psp is an activated Psp. End of story. Can’t buy discs = can’t download in the future.
(and on a side note, are you familiar with PSOne Classics/Wii Virtual Console?)
Besides Hard drives and flash memory are two different things. Remember this topic is about the Go, which happens to use flash memory. You can so much as put a go underwater and be able to use is, so long as it completely dries out. The point here being that yeah, after 10+ years, you will still be able to play it.
“Name a 10+ year old system with which you can just go to the store and buy a game. Not even buy/re-sell stores like Gamestop carry anything Pre-GBA/PS2.”
How nice that you are able to put everything on your own terms.
And why does a game HAVE to be new and can’t be a resell? In fact, this was my entire damn argument, resell won’t even exist anymore in a DD-only world.
Dosen’t change the fact that if there was a PS1 or SNES or whatever game that I want to try, I can go get it, and play it just fine. I can’t do that with a DD system that had its servers taken down long ago.
“You’re killing the possibility of not being able to purchase stuff off of Wii Shop Channel/XBLA/PSN in 10 years.”
Only the popular games surface on these DD systems like Live or VC, a tiny minute fraction of the games that were avaliable for the system are on here, and at outrageous prices (especially on the VC). What if a game I want was a niche title that not many knew about? If the game was DD only then I am shit out of luck. You don’t see to realize that this is nothing but a huge step backwards.
“You never know. It’s up to the company.”
Precisely! And trust me, they will NEVER act in your best interests. Most of the good PS1 games are still not on PSN! Never mind EVERY Ps1 game eventually being on there, and they STILL region lock the online stores.
“Also, just because the company stops support of that system’s games, the system itself can still work independantly of the service, you just can’t add to it.”
Thats precisely what I said! You can never purcahse another game again, on TOP of being being able to buy used, rent, borrow, etc in the first place! And storage devices do NOT last forever, especially mechanical ones like harddrives. The memory WILL eventually fail, and then what? The system is useless and all your games are GONE.
Even if a few of them (there is ZERO chance all of them will surface) on another downloadable service, you will need to re-purchase games you already purchased.
What advantage OTHER than just being a lazyass that dosen’t get up off the counch does DD possibly have over physical media for the consumer? Especially considering how it pisses all over your rights.
Also, about the renting and borrowing and such, I personally don’t let people borrow/borrow from people, but that’s just me. Therefore, it doesn’t effect me.
However, if you were supportive of the video game industry, you wouldn’t support renting/borrowing. DD or physical, the company who makes the game gets no $$$ and if everyone borrowed from each other, worst case scenario is you may never see certain franchises or even publishers again.
“Also, about the renting and borrowing and such, I personally don’t let people borrow/borrow from people, but that’s just me. Therefore, it doesn’t effect me.”
Never, EVER, take the “I don’t use this so it dosen’t effect me” approach, its a very egotistical and pointless attempt to make a point, and can easilly be ripped to pieces.
“However, if you were supportive of the video game industry, you wouldn’t support renting/borrowing.”
Oh please, are you brianwashed? By this logic you shouldn’t lend anything to anyone.
Are you “supportive” of the tools industry? Then no, you can’t lend your friend a screwdriver, drill, or saw.
Are you “supportive” of the movie industry? Then no, you can’t lend your friend a DVD.
Are you “supportive” of the auto industry? Then no, you can’t let your friend borrow your car.
Should rental stores be shut down?
Should flea markets be shut down?
Should e-bay not allow any more used products?
Should all used car sales be shut down?
You don’t seem to realize that the term “supportive” has been twisted around to try to men “be our brainless stooge”, selling used objects is a RIGHT according to US FEDERAL LAW, so is borrowing and lending. The way the media companies attempt to demonize this is pathetic, and full of false strawmans.
“the company who makes the game gets no $$$ and if everyone borrowed from each other, worst case scenario is you may never see certain franchises or even publishers again.”
Such as this one, if I am not buying something, its THEIR fault, not mine. They failed to make me want to buy it. Maybe the game was too short so I figured would just rent it, maybe I tried the game and didn’t like it, point is, they failed to make me want to buy it, not my fault, purely theirs. I am not going to toss my wallet at them wherever they go just because they have brainwashed you into thinking you should care about a company that sure as hell doesn’t care about you.
ESPECIALLY the way they have been nickle and dimeing us for everything. DLC that comes out the day the game comes out and is 100kilobytes (in other words, exists on the disk but is locked out), collector’s editions that contain exclusive levels/characters, and all sorts of other crap they pull.
Also, the “the game might never be made again” is an empty threat to try to scare people gullible into being their cash cows.
NEVER try to take the “support the companies” approach, because it is a complete and total broken argument to try to make and shows you as a brainless zombie that has been programmed to throw money at every move a company that dosen’t even know you exist make and try to urge others to do the same.
Cyber Akuma is more eloquent than I am, but I’m just going to simply ask:
So we should just buy games and take a chance that the game sucks, and then never recoup any money back? Renting and borrowing physical media have benefits from the consumer point of view.
You likely cannot resell a digital download you don’t like if it’s DRMed, so you are completely stuck. If you don’t like or are tired of a physical game, at least you can trade it or sell it(at a loss but still you get something back).
Everything slanted in favor of the industry will just turn people off and they’ll soon be figuring out how to play burned games. That will cost the video game industry serious money, not trading, reselling or borrowing.
If companies would see DLC from the consumers point of view DLC could be a huge improvement to the industry. Look at the difference between buying MP3’s on Itunes vs Amazon on Itunes you get some DRM’ed up garbage that dies with your computer and on Amazon you get a un DRM’ed MP3 which you can backup yourself and you also have the added “safety net” of being able to download the MP3 again.
All DLC needs to follow this standard, consumers rights must be protected under any circumstance.
I’ve bought Downloadable content before only to get burned when I formatted my computer. In fact I had to get hacked executables in order to play the game I had purchased!!
I certainly don’t condone Piracy but I also want to play things that I purchase without any hassle, my rights need to be protected and it’s the Company selling me the product who needs to ensure that protection to me and make purchasing products and enjoyment rather than a hassle, the reason they have so much piracy is because it’s so much easier to pirate a product then it is to buy it plus if you pirate it you don’t have to worry about all the crappy “security measures”.
New, old, it’s all the same. Eventually, the new games will be old, but people will want to play them. It’s just easier to find these games through DD channels. DD is relatively new, so yes, there isn’t much to offer -yet-. Look at places like iTunes. When that was started, it wasn’t exactly full of content, and look at where it’s gone.
That’s the problem with people today. Always looking for a handout. Watch the news. People keep taking advantage of each other, there’ll be nothing left.
I personally don’t want someone’s used shit, and I don’t want a ton of discs lying around waiting to get scratched.
And as for your “rights,” read the back of one of your game/music/movie boxes. It will read something to the effect of “Distribution/resale (blahblahblah) is against this law and that law and blah blah blah without permission”
Find where it says this is legal, and I’ll happily agree with you.
As for DRM, what’s the difference between that and the copy protection on a disc? Everyone has to have their own game. Sure, it becomes pass the psp around rather than pass the disc around, but ultimately, if you let someone borrow your shit, you can’t play it until you get it back.
I happen to have 2 psp’s (psp slim/go) and it’s quite convenient to have games that can be saved to both. Someone else can play one, while I play the other.
“It’s just easier to find these games through DD channels. DD is relatively new, so yes, there isn’t much to offer -yet-.”
Its easier to CONTROL the content you supposedly own through DD, yes, and THIS is why they want to push it so badly. They want to turn the media market into a 1984-like world where they retain full rights to everything you purchase and force you to repurchase everything when something changes. Got a PSP Go? Congratulations! Now repurchase all of your UMD games as downloads!
Yeah, you support DD only, so did many others…. until something happened and they were unable to get the media they purchased back. Its only until THEN that they finally get the picture, kinda like somebody who never backs up his files until after a crash wipes out everything.
“Look at places like iTunes. When that was started, it wasn’t exactly full of content, and look at where it’s gone.”
iTunes is different, it offered something that nobody else could, the ability to download a single song instead of an entire soundtrack. And iTunes recently dropped any and all DRM for it’s music.
“I personally don’t want someone’s used shit, and I don’t want a ton of discs lying around waiting to get scratched.”
What did I tell you about this “I don’t” crap? What YOU want or do not want has no bearing on this.
*I* don’t want to download my games, how does this make it any more valid than YOU not wanting to buy used games?
“And as for your “rights,” read the back of one of your game/music/movie boxes. It will read something to the effect of “Distribution/resale (blahblahblah) is against this law and that law and blah blah blah without permission””
That is called the EULA.
100% unenforceable
100% pointless
100% not a binding contract
100% THROWN OUT IN COURT if anybody is stupid enough to attempt to use it.
Last I checked, the federal government made the laws, not Capcom or Nintendo or whoever printed that.
There are so many things wrong with the EULA that I could go on forever.
“Find where it says this is legal, and I’ll happily agree with you.”
You might want to look up some laws called “right of first sale” and “fair use”…. for starters.
“As for DRM, what’s the difference between that and the copy protection on a disc? Everyone has to have their own game. Sure, it becomes pass the psp around rather than pass the disc around, but ultimately, if you let someone borrow your shit, you can’t play it until you get it back.”
I can still purchase a used copy-protected game that is on disk.
I can still sell these games, I can still rent these games, I can still (and 100% legally) borrow or lend these games. And whether YOU do or do not rent, buy used, borrow, whatever makes no damn difference.
And seriously? You are asking whats the difference between passing a PSP loaded with games around instead of a disk?
If I let somebody borrow a PSP game, I only cannot play THAT game until I get it back, if I let someone borrow my PSP, I cannot play ANY of my PSP games until I get the system back, comon, this is common sense, you SERIOUSLY needed me to explain that one?
If the “used shit” is in good condition, it’s good to go IMO!!! It’s good for the environment too, if you want to take that approach. there’s less plastic and other crap in landfills if you can reuse something.
And on my CDs and DVDs(didn’t check the game discs yet), it’s unauthorized copying and distribution that’s prohibited. But that’s copyright law that seems to apply to selling burned copies or maybe even simply handing out burned copies. If it really applied to resales, Amazon and a whole lot of other retailers including my neighborhood CD resale shops would be getting contacted by the Feds.
Wow Akuma. Does this make you feel good inside? “You know what I did today? I had an arguement online about video games” ooo
I’m in awe.
Okay mommy, let me rephrase that for you.
I as a consumer, along with everyone else who supports DD, believe in the convenience of the service. Yes, there are DRM restrictions and yes, there are limited items in stock (SO FAR). However, it is much more convenient for a portable system to have the data stored on it, for the typical consumer, me included.
You’d be suprised how long flash memory lasts. I’m still using memory cards from before 2000. Hard drives suck, yes, but this is about the PSP Go, which uses flash memory. Pretty good i think.
As for resell value, put it this way:
“Activated Psp Go, with tons of games on it.”
You could sell the system, the games, and even the password if you wanted. -Someone- would buy it.
I can hear it already “What if they want this game, but not that one?!”
Then they can just delete it, its not like it costs them extra for shipping.
“Wow Akuma. Does this make you feel good inside? “You know what I did today? I had an arguement online about video games” ooo
I’m in awe.
Okay mommy, let me rephrase that for you.”
How about you cut the crap, cut the childish attempts at insults, and just get to your points eh?
Slinging immature insults like this will not make your argument seem any more valid.
“I as a consumer, along with everyone else who supports DD, believe in the convenience of the service. Yes, there are DRM restrictions and yes, there are limited items in stock (SO FAR). However, it is much more convenient for a portable system to have the data stored on it, for the typical consumer, me included.”
And this comes at a massive loss of rights, I know that you personally don’t care, but the majority of consumers aren’t willing to basically give up everything just os they don’t have to get up and drive 5 minutes to the store, or wait 3 days for the game they ordered online to arrive in the mail.
I love how you just glance over “yeah it has DRM” as if it was nothing, when that is the very point of this argument.
“You’d be suprised how long flash memory lasts. I’m still using memory cards from before 2000. Hard drives suck, yes, but this is about the PSP Go, which uses flash memory. Pretty good i think.”
You realize that flash memory has an even lower amount of rewrites than a harddrive right?
“As for resell value, put it this way:
“Activated Psp Go, with tons of games on it.”
You could sell the system, the games, and even the password if you wanted. -Someone- would buy it.”
Let me put it THIS way:
‘PSP 3000 with tons of games”
How is this any less valuable? And then they can SELL the games they don’t want.
Also, what you just claimed, according to your own words, is illegal.
You went on a holy crusade just a little while ago that renting, buying used, lending to a friend, etc are illegal because the game publisher said so.
Well, all of those games you buy? You aren’t buying the game, you are buying a LICENSE to use the game, a license, that according to the very people who you said have a legally binding contract, is NON transferable. So you are not allowed to sell any of your downloaded licenses.
Hypocrite much?
Not to mention that if anything were to happen, the person who purchased the PSP, they would have no way whatsoever to get them back unless you gave them your PSN account, and I am pretty sure anybody can tell why that would be a bad idea.