In the interest of bringing Ron and Fez’s fantastic radio show topics to a more tech-minded audience, I propose the following: games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band, while fun and, generally speaking, “good,” will not save rock music. Rock and roll, for all intents and purposes, is dead. Bear with me for a minute, I’ll make this relevant to CrunchGear.
So the topic on today’s show was: U2—you may have heard of them—recently released a new album, but it didn’t sell too well. This created the discussion: is rock dead? Someone brought up the idea that kids today just aren’t buying music anymore, that they’re playing video games instead; you have but so many entertainment dollars to spend, right? But even if kids (and by kids I mean the 30 and under crowd, a completely arbitrary cutoff point) are going out and buying these games left and right, does that mean they’re experiencing music in a new way, as proponents of the idea that Guitar Hero will save the music business would have you believe, or are they just killing time?
To paraphrase Ron Bennington, if the only thing these kids are doing is playing Simon with Pearl Jam in the background, Pearl Jam might as well be the Pac-Man theme song. The kids aren’t paying attention to the music, aren’t getting “into it,” per se, but are merely following along with whatever random melody is playing in the background.
(Incidentally, a caller tried to blame the decline of rock music on Pearl Jam’s anti-everything antics back in the 1990s and 2000s, driving kids into hip hop’s flashy embrace. Kids want to look up to Rock Stars, and the lifestyle they live, and not necessarily people who, while armed with guitars, are generally against the whole rock “scene.” That’s partially why rapping about money, women, and cars caught fire in the 1990s: it filled a void that rock had left behind. I sure as hell would rather listen to Jay-Z than, say, The Strokes, who, if I recall correctly, were once promoted as the saviors of rock and roll.)
The future?
What new (and I do mean brand new, and not merely new to you) rock music have you heard in one of these games that made you think, “Hey, this band is pretty good. I’m gonna buy their album from iTunes and buy a t-shirt from their Web site.”? You may well be able to play along just fine with a Weezer or Peter Frampton song, and you’ll have a good time doing so, but in doing so you’re not exactly discovering Bruce Springsteen back when he was just a local Jersey act. You’re not discovering new music, but rather pressing a fisher price fret along with the melody to a classic rock song. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but that’s not going to save rock music, now is it?
And by save I just mean to make it popular again. I’d love to see a sales comparison between rock music and hip hop over the past 10 years. I bet it’s pretty one-sided.
Now these games are great for bands like The Beatles that are trying to introduce their catalog to millions of new eyeballs, but you’re not necessarily creating any new talent. It’s sorta like WWE in that sense: I stopped watching regularly back in high school (2004ish), but I turn on Raw or Smackdown today and the very same guys are who were main-eventing then (Triple H, Undertaker, John Cena, etc) are main-eventing now; no new stars have been created in the past five years. That’s not good!
So yeah, sorta rambling, but you get my point: Rock Band & Co. may be great for the record labels looking to make a extra few dollars on licensing deals, and may be great for old bands looking to introduce new fans to their music, but you’re crazy if you think these games will make rock music the music of this generation’s young people; hip has already won that battle. No new rock talent is being cultivated with these games, and the relationship between the actual music and the player isn’t genuine: you’re playing a video game with your friends as part of an event or fun social gathering, and aren’t carefully digesting the melodies and lyrics of “Gouge Away” for the sake of the music itself.
That is all.
The only semi-useful “musical” instrument in rock band is the vocals. Basically none of it translates to music whatsoever.
“if the only thing these kids are doing is playing Simon with Pearl Jam in the background, Pearl Jam might as well be the Pac-Man theme song.”
You might as well make that argument about dancing – it’s just jumping around with some Pearl Jam playing in the background, right?
By the way, I lol’d at the suggestion that U2 and Pearl Jam embody rock music. FYI: No-one buys U2 albums for the same reason no-one buys Duran Duran albums.
Haha. Exactly what I was going to say.
Bravo!
OK, were running late, butwere not running on empty. Our guitar is the answer to you most serious of questions. Where do you go to take real music to the next level, where do you get away from the buttons and get to a realguitr feel with real guitr sounds and yet still be able to play with video games and learn real rock and roll? The You Rock Guitar. Check out the videos on You Tube. Were in production now and limited quantities will be available in December, but our vision satisfies your grievances. We’re glad to see this issue raised. Check it out.
is this guy for fuckin real?
Musical tastes change. In the 80’s and early 90’s it was all dance music. Then hip hop. Then guitar bands came back.
It varies.
However if you think that kids can’t differentiate between a toy and a playing a musical instrument then you’re nuts.
This article is ridiculous because of the musical acts it references. U2, Pearl Jam and the Beatles don’t comprise rock music today, Nicholas. They comprise yesterday (and the day before’s) music which you might like but really has little impact on today’s kids’ lives, sad as that may seem.
Rock music is alive and well, but it’s much less of a huge mainstream, dominated by a few bands at a time thing than it was a generation ago. Attribute that to the fragmentation of media. It’s not just that kids get music via video games. It’s also that kids get it via iTunes, YouTube, last.fm, mySpace, and thousands of other digital outlets that let them discover all sorts of bands that never would have seen the light of day in the golden age of album oriented radio (which bred U2 and Pearl Jam).
Ain’t nothin’ wrong with the rock. It’s just that the age of the world conquering super group jamming all of the FM airwaves may have given way to the age of many, many a subgenre superstar carving a living niche via multiple digital media outlets instead of taking over the world one arena at a time.
Larry, that may be true, but the core of his point is that you don’t learn to create with RockBand and Guitar Hero and that there is a generation or two of people out there missing that fundamental creative element of rock and roll… creativity. We have thought about this for three years and are delivering it this year with the You Rock Guitar. Time has come today to stand up and rock!!!
Popular music is alive and well, meaning the trendy vocoder-induced rap and the bubblegum pop Jonas Bro’s and company.
True rock and hip hop music is there for the taking. You just have to care enough to do some research, find it. Popular radio, MTV, and VH1 stopped caring a long time ago.
It’s no longer substance. It’s cookie-cutter. It’s mindless. And frankly insulting to the ear.
I don’t think the meaning of these games is to “make rock music the music of this generation’s young people”. And if you think hip hop has won any sort of battle, you haven’t been to many real rock concerts lately. But, of course, it all goes back to what “you” consider true hip hop. Kanye West and Soulja Boy don’t count, sorry.
These games are a fad, and they will taper off soon enough. The real challange, in regards to the current state of hip hop or rock, is how the kids will discover that music, and it’s not through games. It’s word of mouth, internet research and concert going.
Larry, with all due respect, you clearly haven’t been to a U2 or pearl jam* show have you?
And your clearly not a Beatles fan either. Their influence on rock music today is as clear as the driven snow my friend.
They stole this topic from the Special Delivery show (Sat 9-12) on xm202 sirius197
Love how you said U2’s new album didn’t sell well …it sold over a million copies in the U.S. with next to no radio airplay in an age where almost everybody downloads their music for free…how is that not selling well??…so far there are only 7 albums released in 2009 in the U.S. that have sold over a million copies(U2 being one of them) and almost all the others recieved extensive radio airplay…so I just kind of proved you wrong.
Great point, Jack.
Seems like most people today depend on being spoon fed their music. Then, needlessly, spread false information about the “state of rock”, as it pertains to a video game.
One’s not related to the other. One a game, the other is music that is used in that game. If you want to find out how real rock music is doing, go to a real rock show. And if you don’t know how to find one then your listening in all the wrong places. Most widely popular rock and hip hop groups of today make a living off concert sales. Because people love to see them live and follow them. It’s gotta say something for music today. Real, meaningful music no matter what genre will always have a great following. I should know, I’ve been to hundreds of concerts in my lifetime.
i think this argument is irresponsible it leaves out too many factors, you say hip hop and rock and roll and those are blanket statements. there are too many sub genres that simply did not exist years ago because music was controlled, you listened to what producers and radios wanted you to hear
now people are able to find their own music and there are so many sub genre’s of rock its not even funny. underground shows run rampant .. and thats up here in Maine, when i was in Florida there was a show i was interested in every week or every other week… i simply couldn’t make enough money to try and afford to keep myself satisfied!
its not dead, and music hasnt ’stalled out’ your just not opening your horizons yourself to what else is available aside from all these old bands like the beatles and u2 and all the rest… for goodness sake there are so many options out there.. why do we bother holding onto the classics so dearly?
Can anyone provide more info on how to get paid for writing whatever comes into my head? It seems to be a real growth industry.
get a blogspot account
setup a google adsense account
voila!
you won’t make much but you’ll make a few cents :P
Uhh….I think the issue here is “U2 released an album”. I buy music all the time and I did not and would not buy a U2 cd/download. U2 can in no way represent rock music as a whole.
Metallica sells cd’s like mad along with Disturbed, the new Alice In Chains, the list is endless.
When you mentioned U2 and rock and roll in the same sentence I started to stop reading. They are neither rock, nor roll….U2 is pop, and horrible.
Real rock and roll stopped in the 70’s….musicians today can’t really be called that. Most of them can’t play very well and use technology to mask their songs.
So, yes….your writing is partially correct…rock and roll is dead in the sense that it’s not being made anymore.
Your definition of “real” is elitist and annoying.
A more correct statement would be “The particular style of rock & roll that I enjoy stopped being made in the 70’s”.
Things change; get over it. Ironically, that was actually quite a prevalent theme in rock of the 60’s/70’s.
I agree… nothing can compare to the Carpenters.
Rock is dead? Again? Rock is obviously a zombie because every time it dies a year later some new band comes along and the music press headlines scream “Rock Lives!”. Is U2 rock? Who cares? Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to go listen to some Satyricon \m/
ron and fez noon to 3
:)
Don’t judge rock’s status by one album, even if it is by U2.
Shoot – I am a big U2 fan, thought “How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb” was fantastic, saw them in concert, etc. But this latest album was not up to their usual quality. As I described it to my brother: “their albums usually have 2-3 really really good songs, 3 -4 memorable songs, and the rest is filler… decent to listen to, but filler. This album is a couple of memorable songs, and filler.”
Loved the concert, though. (But liked it better when they played songs off of earlier albums)
Once again, CrunchGear steps up to the plate with an opinion and argument that must have been composed fifteen minutes before it was posted.
Full points for being so trite, however.
It’s funny you ask is Rock music dead?, because the same question is being asked about hip hop right now.
The real problem here, is the music industry.
The music industry is investing in artists that will make them quick money, rather than investing in REAL TALENTED ARTISTS.
Where does this leave us? it leaves us with extremely suck-ish music and artists that have been overplayed, over commercialized, and overpaid; while there are still talented artists out there waiting to be heard.
Rock n’ roll is not dead, Hip hop isn’t dead, music isn’t dead either; it just needs innovation.
It’s funny because all the time this site advocates for music being free, musicians taking control from the labels – giving away their music as promotional material, profiting off of touring and merchandise, etc, etc, etc… Who’s doing that? Yes, around the edges underground hip-hop, traditional and less traditional music (the folkies, blues, jazz, world performers), but primarily… the descendants of the Grateful Dead, Phish, String Cheese Incident (formerly), moe., and many others on the festival circuits… Jam Rock.
And they don’t give a shit about your album sales and your video games.
Give me the Strokes over Jay-Z any day.
Rock music isn’t dead you’re just listening to the wrong radio stations.
Hip Hop died in the 90’s I don’t know what you call that other stuff on the radio, sounds like new wave R&B to me
I teach music at one of the Paul Green School of Rock’s, and the majority of kids there got interested in rock music because of guitar hero and rock band. I appreciate your article, but I’d have to disagree with you completely. The kids find the music through games, and some of them get interested in music. Same as it ever was.
Will, please contact me. in regards to the You Rock Guitar. info@inspired.com
Check it out on You tube and our web site.
Thanks,
KK
God, this is a terrible, ill-conceived article. Get yer head out yer butt, Nic. Where’s Biggs to edit this junk off the site, anyway?
-1 for the article
-9 for attempting to write about music on a barely passable tech site and failing miserably
Not as many replies as I would expect, oh well. I thought Disco killed Rock and Roll?
It may not directly lead to new talents being discovered since you’re right it’s mostly “classic” rock. However it might stir someone’s interest in a particular kind of music. Weren’t we (and I mean people in their 30s like me) all listening to Hendrix, The Doors, Zeppelin etc. when we were in our teens? And then we would discover other bands that were influenced by these old timers.
Music is all about discovery as well. And you may be underestimating the kids of today. They will notice when something good’s playing they like. It may actually raise their interest in music altogether.
Rock is dead – except for The Hold Steady (nee Lifter Puller).
An article about Rock Band AND Ron and Fez?? Woo Hoo!!
While I normally follow Ronnie B’s word as if it were that of God himself, he is off base here…and so are you.
1. This game has directly contributed towards a resurgance in kids’ interest in learning how to play real instruments and really forming bands.
2. The seed of rock music interest has been planted in millions of kids who spend countless hours playing and perfecting every nuance of these songs. If that doesn’t have a lasting effect, I don’t know what will.
3.
“No new rock talent is being cultivated with these games, and the relationship between the actual music and the player isn’t genuine”
Actually launching this fall is the ‘Rock Band Network’ where anyone who owns the music rights to an original song can download software to create a game track, upload it to the game for other people to download and play, and that band/label recieves 30% of the profit from the DLC sales. This means ANY garage band can get their music into the game and into the hands of theoretically millions of players!
So plug in your XBOXs and lets get down to it boppers!
A vapid, shallow, and unthoughtful analysis. I am perfectly willing to hear a good argument as to why to rock is dead, but this article only confitms that the bands who wanted to “purify” rock back in the 90s might have been onto something. Coming off the hair bands, rock was a joke, and coming off of street hip hop, rap music in the last 10 years IS NOW a joke.
Your argument is now strictly based on commerce and not at all about the art. Hardly ANY album sells even 2 million these days, and music is commodified and cheapened to the point we associate great songs with soda pop ads. Rock music is alive and well in both the mainstream and underground. Great bands have emerged in the last 10 years like White Stripes, My Morning Jacket, Arcade Fire, etc and the mainstream has had bands like Kings of Leon, Coldplay, and the Killers emerge as household names. If you want to talk about money, these bands make more money off of sales and touring than ANY hip hop act. If you want to refer to Jay Z’s and 50 Cent’s fortune through their various NON-music business ventures, you should be writing for a Fortune 500 blog.
Pure horseshit. Just a fabricated mess concocted to fill up some space. Based on a premise that an entire music genre is dead, because on the fact that a single album “only” sold one million copies. Seriously. Who gives a shit how many copies an album sells anyway? Is my life any better if an album sells a million or two million copies? Not in the slightest. Plug in and drop out.
Yes, you are rambling. Of the many ways you try to prove “Rock and roll, for all intents and purposes, is dead”, not one is convincing to me or informed as to the status of rock music today.
The music industry as a whole might be struggling with selling albums, but while album sales are dropping, much of today’s good rock music (especially Jam Bands) is focused on “live music” and the music festival scene.
Just wait till the video game kids you talk about go to college and discover live music; for many, the exposure to live music will open their eyes, and rock will be a big part of it.
These statistics are reported from Box Scores from November 14th, 2007 – November 11th, 2008.
Top Grossing Tours of ‘08:
1. Bon Jovi – $210,650,974
2. Bruce Springsteen – $204,513,630
3. Madonna – $185,696,018
4. The Police – $149,623,800
5. Celine Dion – $91,006,221
6. Kenny Chesney – $86,306,618
7. Neil Diamond – $81,206,383
8. Spice Girls – $70,123,272
9. Eagles – $56,625,336
10. Rascal Flatts – $55,863,364
11. Van Halen – $49,017,853
12. Trans-Siberian Orchestra – $47,382,901
13. Michael Buble – $46,333,163
14. Hanna Montana/Miley Cyrus – $45,376,189
15. Billy Joel – $41,133,051
16. Jonas Brothers – $40,080,352
17. Dave Matthews Band – $39,583,329
18. Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers – $39,138,280
19. Leonard Cohen – $36,346,67
20. Journey – $35,695,481
21. Jay-Z, Mary J. Blige – $34,547,053
22. Take That – $32,451,800
23. Toby Keith – $31,699,677
24. American Idols Live – $29,906,507
25. Elton John – $29,432,421
Jay-Z is the only one on the list in the hip-hop category. Thank goodness he has set the bar high for a new standard in hip-hop by focusing on live instruments after the years of sampling and synthesizer junk we have come to expect from hip-hop.
Sorry, but that list is flawed. Although I am not questioning the correctness of the numbers the relationships are skewed.
Springsteen and Madonna’s ticket prices are super high and Bon Jovi does a million shows a year. The relationship would be better if you actually brought the amount of tour dates and ticket prices in line. Now THAT would tell a story!
Yeah, that U2 isn’t rock and hasn’t sold at all over the last 20 years! A rock dud fer sure!
Reminds me of the high school teacher I had who proclaimed the guitar would never survive and the piano was gonna be the pop music powerhouse.
Oookaaaay…
Rock n Roll isn’t dead, and if you think it is why don’t you swing by the Spectrum in Philadelphia this week and see what all the fuss is about. Who did they chose to play the last 4 shows at the Spectrum before they tear it down? Pearl Jam…not Lady Gaga, not Jay-Z, not U2, not even Bruce Springsteen (all do respect to “The Boss”), but Pearl Jam. Pearl Jam, who in a USA reader’s poll was voted the #1 American rock band of all time. Rock n roll just isn’t as accessable as it once was. There was a time when you could turn on your radio and hear quality music…that was about 40 years ago when DJs could play album cuts they wanted and weren’t limited to “singles”. Now you turn on your radio and it’s all advertisements and Nickelback. Americans are by and large, lazy, and think that Rock n Roll is dead simply because FM Radio and MTV tell them that it is. The really talented bands are out there, you just have to get out from in front of the TV and actually listen and maybe pick up a magazine that isn’t Rolling Stone. The White Stripes, The Strokes, The Black Keys, My Morning Jacket, Queens of the Stone Age, Fleet Foxes, Arctic Monkeys…the list goes on and on. Here’s an idea, listen to some college stations, get out into your community and hit up the rock clubs downtown for some local and/or international talent. Those clubs still exist, 9:30 Club in D.C., Cat’s Cradle in Chapel Hill, N.C., The Metro in Chicago…the list goes on and on. Rock n Roll has nothing to do with album sales, it’s an attitude…a lifestyle. “Rock ‘n’ Roll can never die” Young, Neil said that…who by the way had the best selling album of 1972 with Harvest…today it wouldn’t get any attention from the “mainstream”.
Right on luke.
Funny… this is what they said about pitching for baseball in the 90’s because of Nintendo… (paraphrasing) “…kids are not outside and will never learn how to pitch. In ten years there will be zero new pitchers and baseball will go in the toilet”
last I saw… there were a couple of good YOUNG pitchers in the SF rotation. Must be a fluke.
This article is laughable. This year has seen the release of a lot of great rock music. We have had great new releases from acts like Metallica, U2, Mastodon, Baroness, Phoenix, The Dead Weather, David Bazan, The Flaming Lips, Sonic Youth, And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead, Arctic Monkeys, Morrissey, and even more coming out soon like Them Crooked Vultures.
Just because you prefer hip-hop over rock does not make it the preferred music of the rest of the world. Stick to phone and gadget news and keep your biases to yourself please.
I just saw Pearl Jam at the Spectrum in Philly last night. There were plenty of teens and twenty somethings there. From my observations, I would guess people from those age groups accounted for 35-40% of the audience.
I sure am glad to see that people are disagreeing with this. Rock music is very much still alive and well. And as for Rock Band, I play that game all the time, it’s quite popular amongst my friends too. And I’ve seen quite a few people gain interest in a new band or in playing an instrument thanks to games like that. It may not be “reviving” rock’n'roll but at least it’s putting music of many genres into the game and getting it out there. No harm done, I say.
The band 10 Years is the best one out right now and is worth checking out
Rock is dead? Riiiiiight…
Ska is dead; the Mighty Mighty Bosstones were the end of the mainstream era for ska, and we miss them, cranking up the radio when “The Impression That I Get” comes on and stirs up all of the emotions that ska did in the’90s. But its dead.
Rock, on the other hand? U2 may be getting old, and Pearl Jam, but one cannot say that rock is dead just because kids aren’t buying as much Pearl Jam. #1, rock has evolved into dozens of different subgenres that kids now spend their money on – alternative rock, metal, punk, emo – you can see how the list could go on with subgenres of these.
#2 – kids don’t buy music as much, period. Despite all their efforts, todays kids use limewire and other “torrential” means of downloading what they want free of charge. I mean, what did you do when your friend told you about Napster in 1998? If you’re like me, you’d dial-up your modem early before school and pick a dozen or so songs to be downloading, and maybe all twelve of them would be done when you got back from school!
Anyways, I amloving rock more than ever and am psyched about what I am hearing nowadays. In fact, I just heard an awesome song on Youtube by Flyleaf. It’s called “Again”, and if you’re into the emo sounds mentioned early in this posting, you might like their new stuff… and their old stuff. Definitely worth a look, and the lead singer is one of the only girl lead singers with a good scream – not overused, but enough to give the music some edge. Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvVol41w_5Y
Music is about passion…rock or otherwise. If you feel it, if you connect with it, then it’s good for the soul. Like anyone else, I have my personal favorites for personal reasons. Some bands connect, for a myriad of reasons, with ALOT of people (U2 happens to be one of them). This isn’t good or bad, it just IS. It’s pretty silly to over think it.
My advice – a little less internet, a little more playing your instrument. Now I’m off to take my own advice…:)
So um yeah. This may be one of the worst arguments I have ever seen about music dying out. For the record, Beastie Boys along with the help of Run DMC brought the change into our culture. Beastie Boys and Run DMC integrated for the first time in mainstream a hardrock/rap genre. It brought rap into the light for rap to take over, with its first hit Ice Ice Baby, to the beat of Under Pressure. The old rock never disappear, it evolved. Kids still listen to the songs, hint why iPod are successful. Rockband and Guitar Hero have actually made a lot of bands famous, including Reptilia by the Strokes. Kids did go out and download the music, just illegal off the internet. Pearl Jam has never stood for anything and long died out, but Strokes is still played on “expert” everyday. If the kids are hearing the songs and enjoying the songs, does it matter to what means they hear it? Rockband is just a starter to musical instruments. It is a foundation to build off of. For every hundred, 2 kids pick up a guitar and actually try a song, then didn’t Rockband just save music?