Fox News held a fair and balanced debate over Modern Warfare 2, the popular new FPS that lets you play a CIA operative tasked with helping Russian agents clear terrorists out of an airport. In the game, it turns out that the Russian had turned on you and forced you to kill innocents in the airport. It’s a depiction of USA-funded terrorism. It is not a murder simulator.
The debate here, if it can be called that, seems to rotate around the correlation between video game violence and real violence. The old man in this debate mentioned an American Association of Pediatrics statement. Here it is:
VIOLENT VIDEO GAME CONTENT MORE ATTRACTIVE TO YOUTH
Restrictive age and violent-content labels increased the attractiveness of video games for boys and girls of all age groups, according to a new study. In “Age and Violent-Content Labels Make Video Games Forbidden Fruits for Youth,” researchers tested 310 Dutch children in three groups: 7 to 8, 12 to 13 and 16 to 17 years of age. Participants read fictitious video game descriptions and rated how much or how little they wanted to play each game. An important finding for parents, pediatricians and policy-makers is that age and violent-content labels do not prevent young children from playing games with objectionable content. In fact, they have the opposite effect. Study authors suggest that video games should not be forbidden in Europe or the United States because that will only make the games more attractive, and parents should help in selecting appropriate games for their children to play.
This amazing bit of news – kids like stuff they can’t have – is an obvious by-product of our neophilic instincts and does very little to correlate events like the shooting at Fort Hood and 9/11 to violent video games.
Violence stems from a lack of human interaction in a nurturing and mental health context. To ascribe any sort of behavior to media is a cop out for the pundits and for the aggressor. That said, I would recommend children not watch Fox News because it encourages damn fools to come to presidential speeches wearing guns, but that’s neither here nor there.
Sadly, Jon Cristensen at SlashGamer was too tongue-tied to respond to this criticism and it’s rarely the gamer that comes out ahead in these sorts of ambushes. The bottom line: violent games are not for young kids just as pornography, beer, cigarettes, handguns, lighters, spray paint, and knives are not for kids. There is a time and a context for each of those things and to rail against them shows a lack of judgment and clarity.
UPDATE – A cool response:
“Fox News” and “fair and balanced” really don’t belong together in the same sentence.
yes… and soon Fox Tabloid will be focusing on the most important issue in modern day life:
- Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas?
I agree… Faux News takes up these kinds of arguements when it fits them. Same reason why they’ve co-opted the “freedom” slogan… where were they when our freedoms were being threatened by GWBush and Friends?
However, games created by NeoConservatives that have to do with either the assassination of the president or “End of Times” or “Rapture/Second comming” games don’t draw the same fire.
Assistant looser!
You guys are right! The white house should probably step in, remove fox from press conferences, and if that doesn’t work pass the Fairness Doctrine! Now that’s Freedom!
Joking aside, what’s wrong with Fox debating violence in the game? It’s a topic people are obviously interested in debating…just look at the thread.
Bang on. I’m grateful that there’s choice in TV talk beyond Keith Olberama and Rachel Mad-At-Us.
One must only read a little Socrates to understand the importance of art in a society and its influence.
Also, I find it very amusing that on one hand liberals understand this fact so well as to not want smoking depicted in movies, yet when it’s an issue the right is concerned about, it’s a whole different story. It’s all-of-a-sudden “just a video game.”
I find it amusing that you find those two comparable. The tobacco industry spent a long time pushing advertising through any medium and pushed it to every possible market. The result is well documented and advertising of cigarettes is not something just the “liberals” say is bad, but every signatory nation of the WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (168 nations) are meant to ban tobacco advertising. Sticking it in a movie is just as much an advertisement as anything else (thus why companies pay millions for product placement). Smoking also kills millions of people, it is the number one cause of preventable death.
On the other hand, the relationship between video games and violence is limited at best. There has been no statistical evidence to prove it (with the growth of video games there has been a trending fall in violence), there’s no psychological evidence to support it, there’s just people like Jack Thompson going on a rampage because they have an imaginary link in their head.
Another good ol’ Republican, ignore the science and blame the liberals. Fox displays this kind of shit for one reason, it sells. GAME LETS YOU BE A TERRORIST is far more appealing than STUDIES SHOW THAT VIDEO GAMES MAKE CAUSE A TEMPORARY SHORT TERM INCREASE IN AGGRESSION THAT HAS NO LONG TERM EFFECTS AND DOESN’T INCREASE VIOLENT CRIME.
The problem is that Fox is clearly not fair or balanced. They generally have an agenda and it’s usually pretty obvious what that agenda is.
Everyone has an agenda…all media Demos and Fox news Reps
The problem is not the channel that is FOX News, its not the array of personalities, and its not that 99% of the stuff is biased.
The problem is that they report false information as fact, prevent any other view from being heard, and act as if they are a news organization, even when caught with their pants down (aka lying / race baiting).
You cant say false stuff, not correct it, and play it off as opinion or say “its for people to decide”, as people expect a news organization to tell the truth, and thats why so many people fall into the FOX trap and get all worked up.
If there was a RW version of Olberman or Maddow, that would be great, but it would require them to not make up facts and not be run by Murdoch (which says Obama made racist remarks, as he somewhat condemned Beck for saying)
Without backing your statement up, how are you not doing the same thing your criticizing FOX for?
…The problem is that they report false information as fact,…
A problem you obviously have when commenting.
Looser!
But the massacare mission in the game does not even serve a purpose, does not even connect in any way with the story of the game…
The story is so jumbled, you go from killing innocent people to being turned on by your own comrad?
Why put the mission in there? They are running out of shocking content, now they are just adding things that dont make any sense,
doesn’t serve a purpose? it’s the complete turning point of the game. it’s why america gets invaded. what game are you playing or do you just like to type to see yourself read?
killing a ton of innocent people in an airport in russia has nothing to do with America getting invaded. Are American gamers really this stupid?
You never see the damn russian guy who shoots you in the head ever againj or even another russian for the rest of the game.
It moves to a nuke killing a few space objects, all power goes on earth, you stab the last guy in the eye with a knife.
What game are you playing?
Matter of fact the story in MW2 sucks so bad compaired to the masterpiece of MW1, it is safe to say MW2 is a graphics upgrade only laced with sensless violence. The story is just poor.
Concerned Parent, You could not be more wrong about the plot of this game. The airport mission has EVERYTHING to do with why the Russians invade.
So expalin it then.
In the game, how does killing innocent people in a russian airport allow them to invade America?
The Russians find a dead terrorist in the airport (the undercover American), and then they find out he was an American, and they believe that it was an American-funded attack…thus causing them to attack us.
It is really simple is you have played the game.
I finnished the shit, but for once it make sense.
Now I can explain it to all my buddies who dont have a clue, and maybe some of the so called bloggers and reporters can expalin it as “A frame up to start a war” then i dont think it would be such a fucked up looking decision to place it in the game.
Wow, “THE REAL Concerned Parent”, for one, I take it you’re not in America, which congrats for that. For two, how in the hell do you not see the connection between what happened in the airport level to the US invasion, the Russians finding an American’s body as one of the “terrorists” causes them to believe it was an American job, so they retaliate. If you’re a “concerned parent” start focusing on your lack of awareness and enforce government ratings systems, don’t let children play games that weren’t intended for them.
(I reiterated Matt’s statement because you seem a bit dim)
Yeah dim like a full grown adult who choose to not have kids and play videogames in their momma’s basement well into their 40’s stocking shelves at walmart. It’s ok i’ll pass.
you should be afraid to know that some of us are the ones telling you where to dig the hole and which hole to fill in after day-to-day.
what’s worse for you, we’re coming into the height of our earning power and you’re going to be sucking wind (among other things) heading into your retirement.
so… *LOL*
Is that the best you got?
Earning power? That was the 90’s, all you guys have today are copycat movie remakes, sucky music, and strip clubs with a ton of “rules”.
You guys cant even super size your fries anymore for gods sake.. keep your boring youth, mine was better lol.
I had that too, just not in minivan stage of life like you are.
Just letting you know some of us ain’t the ones “stocking shelves at Walmart, and living in the basement”. We ain’t some snot-nose kid that you’re running into on your way to Walmart, so keep your concern to yourself.
The rig I’m running this stuff on most than likely cost more than your monthly mortgage.
The video game does not cause someone to become violent and I would be willing to wager that most people who exhibit violent behavior from playing a video game have some underlying mental condition.
Haha, I like how its “fair and balanced” and then the moderator, himself, starts taking up the side against video games. Not to mention, the guy from SlashGamer was only allowed to say like 3 words at a time, while the other two went on at length about how horrible video games are.
He could’t find the words to explain the sensless violence with bering allowed to play a terrorist,
I really hope you’re a troll because that’s truly the stupidest thing I’ve read all week.
Then maybe they should have brought on a journalist? The art of words is truly an art…
I agree with Waldo; fluid diction and line of thought have never been requirements for working at slashgamer.com.
By the way, did you notice the general demeanor of the article ‘…Sadly, Jon Cristensen at SlashGamer was too tongue-tied to respond to this criticism and it’s rarely the gamer that comes out ahead in these sorts of ambushes… (snif). We’re getting pansier by the minute.
The difference is in how the kids are raised. Maybe you should spend less time arguing in a comment section and spend more time with your kids. “senseless violence” in games is nothing new and your not going to do anything to change it – rather, spend the time educating your kids on right and wrong and pull your head out of….well, you know what I mean.
Do you feel the same about Porn and kids?
Violence is inherent in humanity, again I implore people to pick up a history book. We used to watch animals tear Christians apart for fun, it was a family event.
Furthermore, the news is far more violent than any video game will ever be because it’s actually real. Those images of death and human suffering in HD will never be outdone by a graphics processor.
It begins and ends with how involved parents are with their children. This game is for a mature audience, much like HBO or Showtime. You have to go out and pay for this premium content. If your kid is playing these games, it is the parents fault. If your kid is watching violent movies, it is the parent fault.
While I disagree in principle with this particular mission, I disagree with the outrage against videogames in the media.
How many people in jail never even played a videogame? Where did they learn to be violent? Humanity is a violent culture to begin with, if someone is going to go out and be stupid, CoD: Modern Warfare 2 is not going to change that persons mentality for better or worse.
You could argue shows like CSI are worse, as they actually show potential criminals what CSI’s look for at the crime scene, and often show violence in detail.
Charlie Mason never played a video game and he turned out ok….
on the contrary, the mission and the game overall is a great commentary on blindly following orders and all the jingo/nationalism spell that people fall into so easily.
path to hell is paved with good intentions, and that’s the point of MW2.
Crunchpad won’t allow violent video games to be played. Good for the kids…
thanks a lot for the spoiler :(
We don’t need censorship, we just need responsible parents who won’t let their kids play video games that are meant for older teens and adults.
But what is wrong with playing violent video games? People keep saying that parents should not allow their kids to play them. But most kids are just fine with playing violent video games. I think parents should be more conscious about the behavior of their kids and if they tend to be more violent because of what they are seeing then they obviously should not be playing.
In fairness, there have been major studies done that show that there is a correlation with playing violent video games and aggression afterwards. That said, there is another study that shows that that’s only true with children who have an inherent tendency toward aggression. (I did a research paper on this subject in college)
So it comes back to what he said: yes, parents need to monitor what their kids play and make sure it fits with what they know about their children.
…but Leisure Suit Larry is an outrage?
Why is blood and gore acceptable even though it is an abomination where as sex is abhorred but is natural?
+1
(and I think Fox & Friends was just trying to warn parents with this 2 minute segment)
It’s not like they spent 30 mins blasting propaganda.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/10/07/school_kids_sing_for_health_care_reform_on_set_of_cnn.html
Right on Dragon Blogger! You have a black belt in common sense.
Your first mistake was watching Fox News and expecting intelligent discourse.
how much did news corp pay you for this placement? is it worth selling your soul for pseudo-news and propaganda?
fail.
Did you read past the first sentence?
Call us when you get back from crazy town. I held all your mail for you.
yes he was being sarcastic in his set up. Maybe fox is fair and balanced when viewed across media as a whole.
give me your rating by News org
pick one:
Left, Right, Middle, or “a robot must run things
because they couldn’t be more objective”
CNN
NBC
MSNBC
ABC
CBS
FOX
I don’t understand why this issue gets revisited over and over again. What are legislatures going to do, ban video games? Censor everything? Parent people’s kids for them?
Seriously… this debate gets unreasonable all the time. Would you let your 10 year old kid go to a rated R movie or NC-17? NO, of course not. That’s called “bad parenting”. The same rules apply with the latest FPS games! If it says MC17 on it, and your kid is 10 (or whatever), guess what! They don’t get to play the game! It’s as simple as that!
Mark if you have kids and the really want to play this game and you arent letting them whats to stop them from playing it at their friends house or at a mall or at church while in youth class? My point exactly!
Don’t worry guys, it’s all okay. Stupid people need an easy outlet to complain about and try to shut down. It would be too hard to raise their children properly and give them the love they deserve. It’s not about attention and smothering them, it’s about explaining things and being honest at all times with them. Not giving them what they want, but finding an alternative that is something they want, not just what you want as a parent for the kid. But it is much easier to blame music, video games, and movies for violence and then throwing useless dumb statistics up there on a screen. Did the kids in the school shootings kill those kids and teachers because they played too many games and watched too many movies? No, it’s because stupid people hurt them, they broke them down and no one seemed to care. They were alone and wanted a break. It was not fair and no one ever taught them another outlet. They let them do what they pleased.
As parents and adults we have to teach our kids what is good and important. CoD is a lot of fun. Games are just that; games. I didn’t learn about violence from games or paintball, which I love and played semi-professionally for two years.
They say something like “…even if only an adult buys it, there are still children in the house who could use it when they see their dad play it…”
Does this not apply to, you know, guns? What about knifes? What about kettles?
I’d rather play Dragon Age. :)
WTF are you talking about? I didn’t make it past paragraph one’s nonsense:
“Fox News held a fair and balanced debate over Modern Warfare 2, the popular new FPS that lets you play a CIA operative tasked with helping Russian agents clear terrorists out of an airport. In the game, it turns out that the Russian had turned on you and forced you to kill innocents in the airport. It’s a depiction of USA-funded terrorism. It is not a murder simulator.”
Other than this being absolutely wrong, you are not a CIA operative tasked with helping Russian agents clear out terrorists, you are a terrorist tasked with killing Russians. Nobody turns on you to force you kill innocents, it’s an undercover op.
“A depiction of U.S. Funded terrorism”
You haven’t played the game have you? Please don’t talk about stuff you know nothing about.
Whoever wrote this nonsense is a nimrod. Also, it’s 17+ don’t let children play. (So I don’t have to listen to them whine.)
I just played the level last night.
The level is presented as you being an undercover CIA guy who’s planted with the Russian guy, and then you go shoot up the airport.
Is there a storyline wrinkle that later reveals that it wasn’t the CIA? I don’t know, I only played up the next level in Brazil, died 8 million times, then turned it off.
But up to the completion of that level, all you know is the CIA went to great lengths to put your character next to the Russian guy, and then you take part in a slaughter.
I just wonder: if a developer from Iran released a game wherein you waltz through an American airport and start killing people left and right, what kind of reaction would there be? I can just see the likes of Fox News, CNN, Hannity, etc. freaking out and demanding some sort of apology.
I understand it’s “just a game,” and a mature rated one at that (but to deny that kids aren’t getting their hands on the game is naïve), but you do realize you’re playing a game wherein the objective of a level is to murder civilians who are just milling about an airport?
That’s considered entertainment? I think it’s a little barbaric, and I’ve played violent video games since I could hold a controller.
so you watched the first 10 minutes of Bourne Identity and decide Jason Bourne was Forrest Gump…
I see what you did there.
How old is that guy’s TV?!?!?
So… John Biggs is trying for the Fox Tabloid money? Updating the old resume to include “reported favorably for Fox Tabloid” in the other interests section?
he is not reporting favorably about FOX. He is criticising them
Dude, I’d like you to meet a friend of mine, it’s called sarcasm.
I used to murder people in the street all the time, but now that I have violent video games that let me kill to my heart’s content, I have become a productive member of society, and volunteer for many charity organizations.
Plus I save a TON on ammunition and car repairs.
ROFLMAO! Hilarious. If only there was a geico gecko picture with him looking like rambo.
Thanks for spoiling the game, jerkwad.
This really bad journalism by TechCrunch.
Read the review from Ars:
“How do we feel about the controversial segment where you become part of a terrorist act? It’s hard to watch. The actual mission that has gained all this controversy is, in all honesty, pretty shocking stuff. The game slows down; you can’t run. You have to walk slowly through the scene, watching innocents gunned down. They scream. They try to crawl away. They hold their wounds and moan. You can pull the trigger, or you can just watch. But you’re holding a gun—you’re a part of this. If you decide not to play this mission, you get a cut-scene. Why is this section of the game playable? What does it add? That’s a huge question, with many different answers. I’m not saying the section makes the game better, but it certainly will get people talking. But, yes: it is just as bad as people are saying, and just as hard to take.”
There are graphic and overly brutal scenes in movies for exactly the same reason. So what that in this game you have the “choice” to do something or not. This game is a movie, it tells a story, the only difference is you have control to progress that story or quit.
That’s the point, Benjamin.
In a movie, you *HAVE* to watch; you have no choice.
In a video game, you’re supposed to have a choice. Hence, “game” instead of “interactive movie.” It becomes a problem when you restrict the natural impulse of the player — if you’re not allowed to turn your guns on your “comrades” then it fails in the most important sense. Hence, there’s no reason to make the airport level interactive at all — it could have just been a cut-scene for all it mattered.
No choice but to watch? Hum….I seem to recall a specific prompt, before the game even started, stating there are missions and violence that could be considered offensive to people – and it asked if you wanted to skip these missions. AND you’re prompted *again* if you hit ‘Yes’ to make sure you’re sure. AND yet *again* you’re reminded if you so choose to skip these missions, you may do so in the options.
I’m normally a fan of ARS, but in this instance, they are wrong. You’re not forced through these missions. You have the options, reminded *three times* to skip these missions when you first start up the game.
I’m sorry. If you’re offended, how about using the bloody tools you have and skip the mission. Stop complaining when you’re still in full control here.
There is absolutly NO evidence supporting the fact video games cause violence. ALL the studies done have been Quasi-Experiements, and thus are not valid in any way, shape or form in the science community. Fox, you are bullshit.
And speaking of studies, you ought to get some done lugnuts!
I am a terrorist on Counter-Strike all the time, that games been out forever.
I will wager there have been more terrorists created by someone picking up and reading the Bible, Tora, or Koran, then all video games combined.
Well stated.
+10
Indeed! Actually you have to be well versed in the qur’an in orden to graduate from terrorist school.
Games Games Games….. there is money in it. All I care about is seeing if my avatar from gravatar shows up!
When I visited the US my conclusion was simple, Fox News is the source for a lot of fear and evil in the US. They are the worst. Never seen such a dumb and fear spreading news broadcast company before!
Fox News should be banned immediately. What is worse, fake virtual violence like in games or ridiculous news that shows the real world with the bullshit that Fox News adds to it. Man, they suck and are very dangerous!
‘[...] is the source for a lot of fear and evil [...] They are the worst. [...] should be banned immediately. [...] they [...] are very dangerous!
-Mein Kampf, Hitler, Adolf, 1926.
Are we learning any lessons Hans? ;)
Hey Mike – can you take Fox down? please!
It would be nice but he has no time…he’s working on the Crunchpad
Didn’t the White House already try? ….and fail miserably
If play Modern Warfare turns people into terrorist, then why aren’t all the people that play Madden NFL superstars??
Such a bullcrap argument Fox. Parents need to be parents and not their kid’s friend. Don’t buy them the game and complain it’s too violent. Video games have ratings for a reason.
Its good that the issue of video game violence is being discussed but I think the many other forms of media should be taken far more seriously than combar army games. People of all ages including children can disginuish army based violence with rap music and general culture violence.
I just wish that some of the money made from this game found its way to injured army personnel.
i’ve been playing violent video games since i was little…i’m not a violent person.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Despite the obvious political bias here, it would probably be wise to just read the studies and listen to the hard evidence, as Mark had cited earlier in the comments above.
Fox could have done more by bringing in more experts on the matter, but can’t be blamed as they did give an equal voice to both people that they brought on (both of whom are on opposite sides of the issue). This is, of course, fair and balanced debate. I don’t think there is any other reason to criticize Fox News unless of course, you have been indoctrinated to believe that they are not reporting the news and are just out to make trouble.
Thank you for finally saying what needs to be said.
There is no reason why people are criticizing Fox right now other than, well, just to criticize Fox.
I have criticized them in the past, but always on legitimate grounds. This, TC commenters, is a bullshit accusation on YOUR part.
The game is fucking violent, there is NO DENYING THAT. Fox never said “take it off the shelves” … Fox and Friends is geared towards house mom’s and this was just warning them about that “new, hot game” that their middle school kids bought.
Shaan, you big.. we small!
Fox is just playing to their psychographic with this. Have they really added anything to this tired, played-out debate?
Well, we do know that these video games teach responsible citizenship and love for fellow humans. And how dare Fox question the value of repeatedly engaging in fake violence, rape and destruction!
I want a Fox news game. Where we can make up stuff and call it news.
As long as it’s rated M for moron!
THIS GAME IS FREAKING AWESOME :D
(constructive post)