Either the WSJ hasn’t taken their anti-crazy pills or there is something severely wrong with the military industrial complex. I’m betting on both.
The story says, essentially, that insurgents in Iraq are “taking control” of our pilotless drones with a $25 piece of software called SkyGrabber. By “take control” the WSJ means “download video feeds from” and by “software” I mean essentially a satellite network snooper.
Now I’m not a rocket scientist, but it looks like what is happening here is that Iraqis are pointing their satellite dishes into the air and watching for downloads. This would be approximately equivalent to packet or token sniffing that, if I’m not mistaken, is popular with teen l33t haX0rz.
See, all of the “*Grabber” programs – there’s also a LAN program – sniff packets on the Internet and intercept downloads. If you were on my LAN downloading a copy of the Spiderman over an unencrypted connection, I would, in theory, be able to watch this and grab the download alongside you. The same, in theory, can be said of satellite connections apparently used by the freaking US military. This suggests either they’re storing video on MegaUpload or that the US military has a plaintext, uncoded FTP server set up in NORAD for the quick and dirty uploading of images from Predator Drones… you now, because the IT staff wanted to rock some Quake 2 instead of using quantum-encrypted connections for matters of national security.
Declan McCullagh notes that:
This apparent security breach, which had been known in military and intelligence circles to be possible, arose because the Predator unmanned aerial vehicles do not use encryption in the final link to their operators on the ground. (By contrast, every time you log on to a bank or credit card Web site, or make a phone call on most modern cellular networks, your communications are protected by encryption technology.)
This suggests that the final link between the drone and the operator is between a satellite flying around in space and that that final link is unencrypted for reasons unfathomable to anyone with even cursory knowledge of network communications. Maybe they wanted to save on bandwidth costs?
We’ll follow this but I’m kind of flabbergasted.
Well, can you blame them?
I mean, it’s not like you can SEE the data as it comes down. Clearly that means it’s encryptivisible.
Some people drive around looking for free Wi-Fi. This is exactly the same thing, except with classified military secrets instead of porn.
stranger things have happened
They gain no advantage by seeing this feed. And, when that panic and run they make easier targets. This seems like a wise strategic move. No wonder bigs is so confused. Crossing my fingers for shots of terrorists running in their cars being hit by precision missles will be under my Christmas tree.
If someone gets access to the feeds, what can they see? Their own guys? How does this hurt national security unless the satellites are used to spy on employees of another US intelligence agency…
Sometimes These drones are used as air support if the drone is hovering above the battle field and they are seeing the feed it is possible they could get troop location and other information that could aid them in a battle.
Im skeptical about this but if it is true,then Shame on you Airforce for overlooking something this important.
It let’s them know THAT we know.
Are you going to keep building a secret bomb in Location A if you know that the people you’re trying to keep it secret from know where it is? No! You’re going to move it to Location B to try and hide it again….unless you’re dumb.
Precisely. You get them to react and you force their hand. When they change their M.O. and try to move to location B, thats when they become easy targets with low colateral damage. Genius.
that is… weird…
Maybe the drones can´t handle realtime encryption of the video stream?
Or maybe encrypting and then decrypting would cause too much lag giving the pilot a hard time controlling the craft?
Nah… thats stupid. A dedicated chip with hardwired algorythms could handle that business almost realtime.
weird…
Well, if they did so to better play Quake 2, I can’t blame them.
I mean, the game rocks!
No. Quake 2 was awful.
These puppies cost $4.5 million a piece so I’m guessing they didn’t make this decision based on costs.
I agree with Bastian; it might be to minimize the lag. Even if the encryption is done in hardware, the encrypted message would still be longer than the unencrypted message and that can make a noticeable difference over a satellite connection, I can imagine. When seconds count and lives are at stake, security may have to take a step back.
No. The lag on a local satellite relay would be in the range of a couple 100 miliseconds, even with encryption this would be imperceivable. The decision has to be strategic.
Some group of people running this program need to be taken to the wood shed and whipped
It does boggle the mind. I worked in aerospace for a number of years, comm satellites mainly, and every channel had some level of encryption. But then again, everything was custom made and nothing was interoperable between systems so maybe they’re stuck with a clear channel as the story says.
This comment is steel on target. Lack of standards and interopetability is catching up with the DoD.
Will take time and money to correct the infrastructure problems.
The bandwidth issue is related, but probably not a direct factor here.
You are both way off, you shouldn’t jump to conclusions here. Every satellite feed has some level of FEC, so it is quite obvious that this came about by intentional decision. There is absolutely no way encryption was overlooked. The assertion that the DoD has a “lack of standards” is not only unfounded but it is the absolute opposite of the truth. Get real.
“K – December 17th, 2009 at 4:50 am GMT+5 If someone gets access to the feeds, what can they see? Their own guys? How does this hurt national security unless the satellites are used to spy on employees of another US intelligence agency…”
We also use drones to watch our people during operations. If you were a grunt moving towards a bad guys hideout, you might be a little concerned that the bad guy was watching you and could function an IED based on the US feed. This is the reason US TV networks do not show live feeds of hostage rescue operations.
+1
It is also worth noting that while this might not be all that valuable in “real time” troop location updates what it can do is give away our TTP’s (Tactics, Techniques and protocols). Many of these drones are used as overwatch or provide eyes on the objective while troops are moving forward on it, by watching the video’s afterwards they can see how the troops move, what formations they are using, what they protocols are for clearing houses and obstructions. They can see where the command element positions, where support gunners position. Which may not sound like a bad thing to many people since each situation would be unique, but I can tell you that in Iraq the insurgents would set up random IED’s and video tape the response, from that they noticed the stand off distances, what responded, where it was likely to post, etc. After a few months we would see an IED strike, with many secondary devices standing by in concentric rings out from the initial strike point because they knew support assets would be crammed up against that outter cordon. Just my humble opinion….
Another feeble attempt by Rupert Murdoch to get the Internets Web thingie banned….or bombed…
MILLION DOLLAR AIRCRAFT WITH AN OFF THE WAL-MART SHELF 25.00 MODEM…..NICE AND WE WONDER WHY OUR MARKET CRASHED…….THANK YOU UNCEL SAM……AND OUR TROOPS HAVE THE BEST THAT MONEY CAN BUY YOU SAY…….I HOPE YOU KEPT THE RECIET1
I think this is an over reaction. You are implying that the “insurgents” – same guys that live in caves – are on the battle field w/ satellite dishes and laptops issuing commands to their well coordinated troops based on information they snag from our spy planes? C’mon.
Maybe in theory it’s possible but look who we are fighting? It’s not even a real competition. Let them have the satellite feed. I doubt they’d even know what to do with it.
That’s what this article is suggesting. They caught someone with videos from our drones.
I agree these insurgents are uncoordinated idiots but why ever underestimate an enemy when lives are at stake
not all of these people are uncoordinated idiots. i’m not surprised by this at all since there were reports two years ago that something like this had been going on but there was no concrete evidence to support the suspicion. what is surprising is that the nato forces have been negligent. interesting.
naive. remember hizbullah? israel went into caves and hideouts and found some of their own maps in the hands of the “idiotic” enemies…
Fitz- I would be careful about assuming that these guys are idiots, I would argue they are quite effective fighters. Sure they live in caves, but that is because they are able to survive there, we cannot grab thermal through the caves and they can endure significant bombing while hunkered down in there. While they might not have xboxes and ipods they sure did fight the Soviets to a standstill thanks to the stinger missile, which at that time was cutting edge technology they were able to use. While our high school football coaches might not be rocket scientists they watch game tapes and that is exactly what these guys are able to see on these video’s. They can look at what went wrong, how did they get compromised, where did the troops come from, how did they advance, etc. All can be harmful to our troops.
Dave- Uncoordinated is not a term i would apply to these guys, they are highly coordinated. Sure many of the “Laborers” may be just followers with no skill sets, many of the people who recruit, train, coordinate and assure execution are very sharp, many are not from Afghanistan. These are fighters who have been engaged in combat in Kosovo, Somalia, Iraq, Sudan, etc. They have fought us before, they know what works, they know what doesn’t work. There is a great article by Michael Bronner about how these guys recruit and conduct operations and it is a great read for those unfamiliar with the enemy we face today, at least in my humble opinion.
I agree, underestimating these guys is a HUGE mistake. Sure, the suicide bomber guys might be drones, but their handlers are most certainly not uneducated idiots, flailing around blindly.
Whether it is for recruiting, recon or coordination, these guys have proven themselves to have become very adept at leveraging technology. And don’t forget, there is no shortage of ex-military and intelligence people (Russian or otherwise) supplying them with the latest tech and training.
You are the one living in a cave if you for real think that these guys live in a cave without acess to laptops and radio-equipment.
“It’s not even a real competition”
It’s almost 2010. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan for the foreseeable future. The “insurgents” seem to be holding their own, and I’m sure there are plenty of families with missing loved ones that would say they pose a real threat.
funny thing is they buy what they need or the hotwire their own products. i mean presumably we have to think they’re all idiots but they’re not. some of them have recieved ace education in america, uk, etc…it’s really dumb to understimate your enemy.
I nominate Fitz for troll comment of the year.
I second that or at least for most idiotic and naive!
All with $25 off the shelf software… so easy a (fill in the blank) could do it…
Fitz said:” but look who we are fighting? It’s not even a real competition”..
an enemy we can’t catch either.. almost like Vietnam in 66-68
Encryption can usually be enabled “on demand” for such military systems, leaving the enemy who is used to receiving plaintext baffled.
Sheesh … Didn’t they ever hear of ROT-13?
ROT-13? tss…the latest is ROT-25 ;)
Maybe, the satellite uses 2ROT13. Maybe this encryption method has been comprimised. I am sure a move to 4ROT13 will keep the off our video feeds for a while.
Seems like techcrunch took down another website – skygrabber is down http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/skygrabber.com
Wow, that really really suck if you hacked into that feed and then saw it looking at your own house. And then…. bam…. you’re gone.
lol
This is silly.
WSJ also claims the people doing this are “Iranian-backed” as if its some super sophisticated plot.
Any jagoff with a dish and the software could “listen” in to the transmission if theres no encryption.
If the military was communicating with TV signals and someone put an antenna on their roof and watched, it would be the same thing.
if you do the digging, you’ll find that not only does iran back these people, so does saudi arabia, etc…anyone with a stake in this ultimate endgame are buying off these people to do their dirty jobs.
i just gotta laugh at how dumb this is.
Didn’t the US military have the same problem during the Bosnian conflict a few years ago? I remember a BBC report where someone was recording drone transmissions from the battlefield. They contacted the US military who said it was to do with operational time delays and encryption was being developed. Obviously it still hasn’t! Oh, the guy who was recording them was paid to stop!
True. But at least I can read my spam on Gmail on https.
Here is the link:
http://www.infosecnews.org/hypermail/0210/6609.html
Does the U.S intentionally leaks information out just to see what the enemy is up to. The U.S always goes to the lowest bid contractor for thier services.
It’s the Decepticons! They have hacked into the mainframe from Air Force One!
And they want pictures of Megan Fox!!!!!!!!
it’s all funny now, but i can tell you the enemy isn’t laughing…or maybe they are, hiding out in their caves and playing dumb/into the stereotypes of a terrorist.
http://www.skygrabber.com/ is down now.
In the spirit of military overzealousness, I propose the solution of spamming the airwaves with as many duplicate, decoy signals as possible. By “decoy signals” of course I mean good ol’ red, white, and blue hardcore pornography. Our enemies will think twice about spying on us if 9/10 feeds is a smut video.
There is no national security.
We are fighting “terrorists” over there so we can hold the borders open for illegal aliens to provide cheap labor for Republican cohorts and election rigging for the Democrats, once quick track to citizenship is passed by Nan and Harry. In the meantme an estimated 80-120,000 illegal aliens from Arab and anarchic African countries have entered the US from Mexico.
you know, if I saw this on a movie, i would have shouted out “FAKE, no way, the military would have encryption!!”
this is unbelievable…
Absolutely. Completely mind-blowing.
someone is trolling someone here.
Uh, “The U.S. government has known about the flaw since the U.S. campaign in Bosnia in the 1990s, current and former officials said. But the Pentagon assumed local adversaries wouldn’t know how to exploit it, the officials said.” I mean I can see that for some webapp, I hope they don’t find my db password, but for battlefield data that holds our troops lives in the balance, are you kidding me?
We have people piloting these drones, that are flying over Afghanistan, somewhere in Nevada. I’m imagining that there must be some sort of minor lag having signals bouncing off of satellites to get to the US.
Adding encryption to this would probably increase the lag a little, but it would still just be negligible in comparison. I’m pretty sure that the military has access to state of the art hardware and could encrypt the video stream without any noticeable lag.
What the article describes is pure arrogance on the military’s part.
Can we say government fail?? They can use this to see what buildings the military is watching, what roads they’re watching, and who they’re watching. All they had to do to get this stuff was buy a software program for $25.
C’mon, they didn’t even buy it, they pirated it. Or can’t they get BitTorrents in caves?
I don’t know why you guys are saying they live in caves, they are talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan. These guys are sitting in apartment buildings and houses in major cities like you and me.
Also these “idiots” are chasing the US out of Iraq and have NATO on the defensive in Afghanistan, everyone clearly needs to give them more credit.
Further proof that our government and military are full of idiots!
No freaking way the military would pull a blunder like that. I don’t believe it.
Keep in mind that the hacking is of the down-link–probably Americans in the western US. I would not be surprised if there was some gaming involved, with the NSA types using the this to help ID the people in the USA helping enemies in Iraq.
NL
So the Iraqi’s were able to intercept drones by cheap software. And defence department wanted to use these drones to do more attacks into the densely populated areas. Assume somebody intercepted and gave instructions to fire missile at its own base!!!
And this problem had existed for years and fixed now.
Holy smoke!! What has happened to this country !!
Reminds me of old MiGs thwarting radar lock-on targeting systems back in the day using off-the-shelf “Fuzzbuster” radar detectors http://bit.ly/5LBTqa Never underestimate consumer-grade gadgetry in the hands of DIY geeks. :-)
Give new meaning to the term Military Intelligence. What good is Military Grade Encryption if you don’t use it?
it gets worse, “Not Just Drones: Militants Can Snoop on Most U.S. Warplanes.”
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/not-just-drones-militants-can-snoop-on-most-us-warplanes/
Wouldn’t the person downloading the satellite link have to be near where the final ground station is? Aren’t the drones operated in the US?
On second thought, this is all misinformation. They are making a big story out of it because they want the bad guys to all start intercepting what will be unimportant or bogus video feeds, and in doing so expose themselves for easy detection, perhaps by some SIGINT methods listening for emanations from the receivers or something like that.
Nuts !
It seems that most of the above commentators get their news mainly from Faux News and CNN.
The “talibans” are not terrorists living in caves, but fighting for the independence of their country from foreign domination. You cannot bring “freedom” and “democracy” by fighting a phoney war for a pipeline.
The US will be bankrupted before they can “liberate” Afghanistan.
So congratulations to the freedom fighters for having found a way to intercept these cowardly weapons.
Show me the evidence that we’re there for oil.
Man, we don’t need the oil! We have our own! Do some research on Bakersfield, California.
Secondly, have you ever *been* to Afghanistan?
Third: CNN? Since when has CNN been conservative?
Last: I agree that the USA will be bankrupt if Obama keeps spending us into poverty.
Hi Nathan
Your reaction confirms my statement about the MSM (Faux News and Co). It shows that despite all the wonderful electronic gagets at their disposal the average Americans are not better informed, than in the old days the Soviets with their Pravda (thruth) and Isvestia, or for that matter the Germans under the Nazis.
They still believe that 9/11 was directed by a turbaned guy in a cave in the Hindukush. Or that Sadam Hussein had WMDs ! So wake up and use your internet connection for independent news!
There is some oil in the North of Afghanistan, but much more lies in the neighbouring countries, which needs a direct outlet to the Indian Ocean and that’s why Unocal wanted the pipeline. By the way Karzai had worked for Unocal before he was installed as puppet president.
Yes, I have traveled thru Afghanistan some years
ago. It’s a marvellous country and very hospitable people. It’s a shame what the US is doing to these people.
haha
Man, you don’t know squat. If you really did your research on me (which would be really easy if you just googled my name) you’d know that I don’t even live in the USA. I live in Vietnam. And Vietnam doesn’t even have Fox News. Heck, I don’t even watch TV. All my news comes from the internet.
And to correct my last statement about Obama, I should have said: “I agree that the USA will be bankrupt if Obama [and the democrat congress] keeps spending us into poverty.”
No matter really, if the Dems get their way, the USA will be a 3rd World country before we know it.
Hi Nathan
Iraq is the evidence that you are out there for oil
US came to the Gulf for oil and there is huge amount of oil in Central Asia that would make the gulf oil as a joke
And guess what? every pipe to get the oil out is through Afghanistan OR Russia and Iran :)
yeah you have oil but US is greedy and wants power
The Bankrupt part will be as a direct effect of US wars plus the corporations’ theives back there at USA.
So. If America has the oil… where is it now?
Also: Do some research on Saddam. He was an evil, genocidal dictator.
I said that based on “Man, we don’t need the oil! We have our own! Do some research on Bakersfield, California.” so I wouldn’t need to argue about US having oil or not while I can make my point clear
yeah America has little oil but it isn’t enough
if you need any further info about America or Iraq oil ask Dick Cheney and his puppy Bush
You made me laugh about Saddam being dictator
Tell me about Bush and destroying countries
more than a million were killed in Iraq and 4-5 million became orphans
US troops have immunity = feel free to kill
let’s say that Saddam got what he deserved
Will Dick Cheney & Bush get the same ??
Also not to forget what happened in Gaza
INJUSTICE and DOUBLE STANDARDS
And you wonder why hopless badguy evil……
fight us
Apparently they are not that bad and they are fighting for freedom
You should do the same to free your country !
@ Saudi Guy
Man, you’r dead on.
Nathan has not done his lessons.
He is still blind.
There are millions of Americans that need to be waken up.
Iraq and Afpak are the twilight of the Empire.
@ Paul Bunyan
I agree
there are some people who will argue with you about the sun even if they saw it because the media say otherwise
about the new empire Afpak will take care of it
usually empires go to Afpak and then disappear
if you want to build an empire do it but stay away from Afpak because they have a well-known history with empires
espicially the Af part
history 101
If you think of it, these drones can be used not only against “insurgeants”in some far way places, but right at home to spy or even kill your own people if they revolt against a corrupt government or a dictatorship.
Watch out !
anyone remember when sadam paid of some local iraqi’s to hack into the satellite the american military used?