Flickr’d. Whoa.
Oh, what could have been. Rahul Sood, of Voodoo PC fame (now at HP), says he’s heard from people in the know that Microsoft was working on a project that would have integrated Xbox Live with a sort of Windows Live. The end goal was to have been console gamers and PC gamers playing against each other on a combined Xbox Live+Windows Live service. The reason why this project never saw the light of day? Because console gamers are rubbish.
What happened was that the combined service, or whatever you want to call it, was moving along smoothly, even getting to the testing stages. That is, testing between console gamers over here and PC gamers over there. Console gamers would be using their standard controller and PC gamers would be using their standard mouse and keyboard.
Every single time the PC gamer killed the console gamer. And I don’t mean killed as in “fragged,” but killed as in the PC gamer knocked the teeth out of the console gamers every single time.
So partially for this reason—console gamers didn’t stand a chance against PC gamers—that Microsoft decided to kill the project. Maybe that’s good (would PC gaming be more popular today?), maybe that’s bad (would PC gamers have to put up with 12-year-olds screaming stupid nonsense at the top of their lungs all game long?). Who knows.
Now, this could be saying a few ones. One is obvious: a mouse and keyboard is more precise than any console controller. That’s not disputable, right? I should hope not! Two, it could be saying something about the relative skill level of PC and console gamers. Can you name even one “famous” professional console gamer? I certainly cannot, but I know you’ve heard the name Fatal1ty before. Perhaps PC gamers are simply better at gaming then their console counterparts?
Then again, it could simply be function following form. PC games (that’s from-the-ground-up PC games, not mere ports) are usually more complex than console games, so after years of getting used to playing, say, Eve Online (or name-your-complex-game), they’ve developed better skills?
No one is saying that PC gamers are “better” than console gamers, just that maybe they have a higher developed skill-set thanks to a more precise input method and generally harder games. Please don’t throw pointy things at me.
*ducks*
*sigh*
It has nothing to do with being better or worse, but the differences in control schemes. The mouse is simply more accurate than an analog stick. Suggesting anything else is just trolling for page views.
Tom nailed it. This is 100% correct and any real gamer who plays on both console and PC notices that difference.
But nice title, made me click.
Yea, you’re probably right. It’s not that console gamers are crappy, it’s that consoles and console controls are crappy.
But ya know what? Console gamers suck.
Actually, he didn’t say that console controls are crappy, he said different.
Obviously, the mouse is far more accurate and much faster than the analog stick on controllers. However, I find that in many games that means the movement are more realistic. E.g. in FPS I don’t find the speed one rotates with and the insanely fast precision to be realistic. However, a core PC gamer clearly will have his objections to my view. My point is still that the control schemes are different, more than that one of them are worse.
It is amazing to me the conclusions writers on this site come to. I often wonder if not feeding the trolls really means I should stop coming to this site.
As someone who has been gaming on both consoles and PCs as long as both have existed, I have to say this author reached one of the most ridiculous conclusions I have ever seen in my life.
Someone who has never played a particular FPS, could probably completely destroy someone with a hundred hours of experience on it, if the inexperienced player was on a PC, and the experienced player was limited to the console. FPS games as an entire genre, have been developed from the ground up for keyboard and mouse. It is like trying to play a combat flight sim on a console controller vs. someone with a full joystick/throttle/pedal setup.
This article is like saying that people who were given a hammer to drive nails with, were more successful at it than people who were given wrenches, so clearly the hammer users are more skilled carpenters than wrench users. Yeah, that, or they have fucking hammers!
Your reply said everything I wanted to, so +1.
Except for this little tidbit :
“I’ve heard from reliable sources that during the development they brought together the best console gamers to play mediocre PC gamers at the same game… and guess what happened?…..The console players got destroyed every time.”
Apparently experience with the game is muchless important that what you use to play it – which obviously explains why consoles ship with controllers….er….I think.
pc gamers are clearly more skilled… at least in choosing platform.
someone who chooses a console to play fps is as a bad gamer as a carpenter using wrenches to drive nails.
Are you saying that people who use hammers to drive nails aren’t better then people who use wrenches? They’re smarter, that’s for sure :)
Actually fps started on pc with joy pad controls. Hence the creation of the informative Thresh’s Quake Bible (http://www.quaketerminus.com/quakebible/basics-config.htm). While this is not relevant any more as most if not all current pc gamers started with mouse /keyboard controls, it does show that the transition was made.
Also anyone saying that people who choose console gaming over pc gaming are bad gamers are wrong to do so as one man’s treasure is another man’s junk. No one cares if you prefer pc gaming over console or vice versa. We’re all gamers stop arguing over semantics and lets all concentrate on the important aspects of gaming like getting decent games out for both platforms.
(Btw I’m a pc gamer)
“people who were given a hammer to drive nails with, were more successful at it than people who were given wrenches, so clearly the hammer users are more skilled carpenters than wrench users”
.. but they are! They’re more smarterer!! Really!! I can prove it. What kind of imbicile would choose try to use a wrench to drive a nail when there’s a hammer available? See?!
Well played sir!
You can never ever in this lifetime find anyone that has not played any FPS and put him/her up on a game like quake 3 against an experienced player and expect that player to “destroy” the other player. Never, ever. In a brainless game like CoD, then perhaps yes.
Skill does not exist today.
//Played PC games since the dawn of time
what about other games
like driving games
clearly an analog controller controller would be a more fitting control scheme than the wasd on your keyboard?
not to mention the added benefit of analog triggers allowing you to control the throttle and brake with way more precision opposed to the keyboard’s digital buttons being either on or off
or games like fighters or sports games
they too are most easily played on a controller where all the face buttons are easily accesible and combinable with eachother and the triggers/bumpers.
I totally agree with this.. an example.. I first played DragonAge Origins on the pc. Beat it there, but then I got the PS3 so I purchased on the PS3 holy cow was the game different, easier too. I could not believe the level of difference, this is one of the few games that I have played on both a console and a pc.
You think pausing for that radial wheel was easier than hot keys?
Seriously?
At first Jon I was leaning towards your take on this ( PC gamers are more intelligent because they chose the correct platform, carpenters that use hammers are more intelligent than ones that use wrenches), however it isn’t accurate. In racing some guys drive open wheel cars and some drive sports cars. Just because the formula 1 car will kick the butt of the Spec racer ford doesn’t say anything about the intelligence of either driver. One either chose his vehicle for economic reason, or because of competitive or access reasons over the other. Same with gaming platforms. A 10 year old kid may not have a choice in their platform. Therefore he is no less intelligent because he gets clobbered playing against a PC platform user. He just doesn’t have access to the same tools as the other guy. I’ve driven a nail many times with a wrench when I didn’t have a hammer. What is stupid is not getting the nail driven for lack of a hammer.
this guy who wrote the article is an idiot
Says the console gamer.
Kidding right? No comparison between PC and console gamers. Many console gamers will tell you that they can play just as well on a joystick vs mouse and keyboard.
Accept the fact that PC gamers are serious and have more skill. Many build their own rigs and you actually have to have some money to put together a nice system. The proof is in the pudding. MS had to cancel the project. Why would you play a game and gimp yourself by playing on inferior hardware? Doesn’t sound serious to me.
The machine doesnt matter at all. Gamers have been making that claim for years, and they’re full of it. Back when I was pretty serious about FPS in early CS and Quake days, some of the best players I knew were using whatever crappy desktop their parents paid for. Custom builds with super high end graphics are nothing but ego. You can put all the money you want into your car, but that doesn’t mean you have any clue how to drive it.
As a person who has grown up using hand-me-down parts to build bad/mediocre computers (at best), I can say that the power of the machine is definitely a huge factor. For example, in a game like COD where a millisecond can mean the difference between living or dying, that small variance can be won with a faster computer. Internet speed is also another factor. Now that I have finally put together a spectacular machine, I dominate! Haha.
Good lord, it is people like you who make online gaming such an unbearable experience! More serious? It’s a fucking game! It is a dalliance, a pastime, and entertainment, not a battle to the death for scarce resources or a mate. Do something real with your life to garner self-esteem, not spend it patting yourself on the back about how skilled you are at spawn-camping!
You want to know who is serious about games? The people who make them! They are the ones who have a right to be proud, not the dude who racked up the most frags in a session.
You sound like someone who is bad at video games.
Yea dude, you definitly just raged there lol.
It’s not just a *game* – It’s a passion and a sport.
I have been part of many clans and competitions – bery bery serious stuff….
I would like to see a PC vs Console in Tonyhawk :P
Maybe MS and Sony should listen to this.
I would by a PS3 or XBOX if it had native support in games for a full Keyboard and Mouse so I can play on my 50″ HD screen! *HINT* HINT*
No, really, Foodie, it IS just a *game* thus the reason they are called video games. You aren’t really out there fighting in combat, or tearing it up on a skateboard, or racing in a car, or winning the Super Bowl. You are sitting at home pretending to do that stuff with the help of a game.
Oh, and you can believe I’m bad at video games all you want Andrew, but you don’t have to be bad at a game to have all the fun sucked out of it by some obsessive freak who is overcompensating because he doesn’t have a single accomplishment he can point to on THIS side of the screen. I can hold my own at just about any game, but why bother when there is no actual fun left in it, because unbalanced individuals have convinced themselves that a high ranking on a leader-board somehow makes up for their otherwise unexceptional life?
I have several friends who are very highly ranked in some of these online games, and they have received everything from harassing phone calls, to actual death threats, all because of how “serious” some people are about their pretend time. You can tell yourself that makes the gamers “hardcore” but really it just means they have a dissociative disorder, and have difficulty telling reality from fiction.
lol go QQ more noob.
It’s not like you’re “wrong”. It’s just like, you’re TOTALLY missing the point, and it’s painfully obvious that anyone with your attitude is gonna lose to someone who considers games a passion.
I bet you play consoles.
Yes apiziro, I play consoles, in fact I have owned every console released for several generations. I also have a quad-core system with dual SLI nvidia cards and 16 GB of ram that I play PC games on. I’m anything but a noob, as I have been playing games avidly since about 1978. I’ve worked on several games, doing everything from testing to 3D graphics, and my wife has been a producer on casual games. At one point, I even worked in a video game arcade, if you remember those. Games have been a major component of my life from childhood through to today.
None of that changes that games are games. If you think I’m missing the point, then I suggest you step back and reevaluate your priorities. I used to see it every day at the arcade when I worked there. Some 12-year-old kid would get all hopped up on adrenaline because he was beating everyone at Street Fighter or Tekken or whatever, and would start strutting around talking shit to everyone in the arcade about what a badass he was. Invariably, by the end of the day, he would be at the booth in the arcade, beat to a pulp, crying for us to call his mommy, because somewhere along the way he forgot he was just playing a game, and started thinking beating someone at the game, really meant he was some sort of super ninja. He would shoot off his mouth to the wrong person, and boom, instant beatdown, which his amazing pretend skills wouldn’t do a thing to prepare him for.
leeloyd,
you’re confused. noob is not = to newbie. Being a noob has nothing to do with hours played. If anything hours played makes your noobness worse.
Yes, people who bring game rage into real life fist fights should go to jail, but that’s not the point. The point is that (your particular claimed skills notwithstanding) people who are flippant about skill in a games, on average, suck compared to people who actually care about being the best they can be.
I’ve played both consoles and PCs. Consoles have waaaay more people who don’t care about their skill and “just want to have fun”. They are shitty players.
its called CPL buddy, might have heard of other ones like CAL or ESEA. These games get turned into sports because guess what – PEOPLE PLAY THE GAME. Advertisers (such as Intel, Nvidia, ATI) get their name onto teams who play other teams from around the world (who are also sponsored). Personally, I know a few people who do this, and let me tell you that it is one of the most unusual pass times I have ever seen. So unusual that I wanna get paid to play a game. Next time you say its “just a game”, slap yourself in the face. Because guaranteed there is some lucky asian out there who makes more money in a day’s worth of playing Counterstrike, or Call of Duty, or Starcraft that makes more money than you do.
now get back to work and stop following this stupid ass blog religiously, its the fucking internet.
I like how Lee says that video games are just games and not real like the Super Bowl. Cause football is serious business and totally not just a game. Football is comparable to war apparently…
Complete rubbish. Back in the olden days when I was just getting into Doom 2 multiplayer I was an avid user of the arrow keys, and I was pretty adamant that it was just as good as using a mouse.
So after having my arse handed to me time and time again by my mate who had the exact same playing experience I had, except he was using a mouse, I was forced to admit the arrow keys were rubbish and I changed to the mouse.
Joysticks have to be wobbled further than a mouse will even need to move for the same action.
AAAAAAAACtually, it’s “The proof of the pudding is in the eating.”
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_proof_of_the_pudding_is_in_the_eating
That’s nice, but are you all deliberately neglecting to consider games where a gaming controller is preferable to mouse/keyboard?
Virtua Fighter?
Anything FIFA/NFL/related?
Console games are played from the comfort of your couch. Anyone hardcore is gonna go sit in front of the PC.
Why wouldn’t a keyboard be at least equal to a controller in 2D fighting games?
The only advantage some controllers have is that some have built in joysticks (which are nice for precise running in football games)
I remember playing Shadowrun, and as a Console Player, found no difference to be honest.
In addition, this mainly applies to Shooters, I would imagine. With both the PC and 360 having racing wheels available, I’m sure something like Forza would be immensely popular on a joint windows live platform.
Most XBLA titles would be suitable as well, I think this is just a case of Microsoft jumping to conclusions.
But Tom is right. You can’t blame the gamer. As for famous console gamers, I’m sure you could ask the MLG players in Halo for a name. They all seem obsessed with becoming professional gamers. :D
Also its easier to cheat on a PC than a console.
Oh “Can you name even one “famous” professional console gamer?” Yes I can T Squared.
I think you failed to read the article hard.
“Every single time the PC gamer killed the console gamer. And I don’t mean killed as in “fragged,” but killed as in the PC gamer knocked the teeth out of the console gamers every single time.”
Sooooo go “*sigh*” elsewhere with your lol speak and xoxo’s.
I knew it! But seriously, its a shame this was scrapped. It may have made developers start focusing on the PC again.
PC gamers invest tens of thousands of dollars. The best console player invests.. $399 plus headphones.
Yes Chad but the $399 is incremental revenue compared to PC gamers, whose PC purchase probably includes ~$100 (?) windows OS revenue. Now, the margin on the Xbox is probably not the same as the margin on the OS purchase, but, I bet they make more on an Xbox than a PC with a windows OS.
they actually lose money on each console sold.
they profit is in the games and the licenses 3rd party devs have to pay
unlike a pc where there’s not really any money to be made for MS after purchase
since the PC is an open platform any1 and their mom can make software without having to pay any1 (dno about windows compatibility might have to pay for that dno)
“invest tens of thousands of dollars”
What PC’s are your friends buying? 20 of them at once?
No kidding. I spent less than $650 on mine.
Which is
i7 720QM(1.60GHz)
4GB Memory DDR3 @1066MHZ
500GB HDD 5400rpm
GeForce GT 240M
DVD±R/RW
After 15+ years of PC gaming I can tell you I’m probably pretty close to 10k in gfx cards alone.. Saying that stings a little.
That’s the thing with PC gaming, you can spend as much as you want on it. Since around ’97 when I bought my first gaming PC, I’ve spent less than that on all gaming PC purchases put together. I’ve gone through 9 graphics cards in that time, starting with a Voodoo II and ending with my current card, a 5750.
if you’re not running TF2 on an 128 core SMP system with 8 dual core GPUs, you’re doing it wrong.
Don’t forget a TV, which will run about $2000 for a decent, 50″ model.
Every console fanatic likes to conveniently forget the price of their TV in their prices. Its like a chromosome deficiency of theirs.
I thought it was commonly known that (at least) fps on consoles have some mechanisms to compensate for these controllers. I’m talking auto aim and ai that shoots later/less accurate.
Yep, and when you try to migrate these to pc games, people notice – just look at FO3′s horrible auto-aim.
But if you mention that, people defend it as a necessity of console games, instead of asking why more research isn’t being done on making better, more accurate controllers.
Honestly, it’s a lost cause. Make the controller more sensitive, and they can’t get the fine aiming right. Make it less sensitive, and it’s gonna take them half an hour to turn around and shoot someone coming from behind.
Only solution is to increase the physical size of your controller stick to be comparable to the size of a mouse pad, or aim for completely new concepts, such as eye tracking.
Not to mention that the Xbox 360 controller uses the same joystick the PS2 used 10 years ago. It is the equivalent of using one of those old ball mice.
http://reflectzyn.com/gagdets/2010/07/08/controllers-part-two-the-expectations/
So why not release an xbox-live / windows-live thing for non-FPS games, like racing games, or all sorts of things.
There are a large number of them out there, strangely enough.
Becase console gamers have their teeth kicked in in these games too, because essentially, the conclusion of the article is spot on. Console gamers suck. Sucking and having a back controle scheme is twice the disadvantage ofc.
He didn’t talk about the gamers in the article, he talked about the hardware.
It’s not a case of skill he’s talking about, he’s talking about how the technological differences between the PC and 360 make them incompatible for play, especially in FPS, a genre in which mouse and keyboard have always dominated.
Controllers are far better for racing games (in my opinion of course) than a mouse, but I think what Twirrim was getting at was that these games would be more balanced between console and PC as the control schemes are far less complex and things like aim do not come into play.
Considering the 360 has arcade joysticks for fighting games and a racing wheel kit for racing games, I don’t see how you could get much difference between PC and 360 in those genres.
And PC’s have those controller adapter kits so you can use the 360 controlller on your PC.
Playing MW2 on the PC was bad enough, and gave me a taste of what playing with console gamers would be like. Thank god Treyarch will be bringing dedis back to that franchise.
Amen, and at the same time it’s a damn shame, as we were all bashing Treyarch over a ‘crappy’ World at War game and now we are turning to them for salvation.
Way to sh1t the bed, IW.
Don’t let MG Siegler near any developer.. he will force them to drop the mouse altogether allowing only multi-touch input…
See: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/19/apple-magic-trackpad/
Where he says “For many users, myself included, touch (and multi-touch to be more specific) is now a preferable input method of computing. I don’t want to use a mouse. I want to use a touch surface.”
Headshot… :D
This existed didn’t it? FASA studio’s Shadowrun had the capability. In fact I seem to remember the devs saying console players needed their auto-aim reduced as the game was too bias in their direction originally.
You beat me to it! i spent too long googling shadow+ something to try and find it!
Nice!!! Someone else that knows what shadow run is!!
PC > console.
One of the constants in the universe.
Finally someone who has brains….
Wasn’t there a xbox vs pc game before? I believe it was on the first xbox…
They sort of did integrate Xbox with Windows Live and called it games for windows live, but it doesn’t extend past the profile to mp and i guess its purely for balance. I think the main reason why people don’t get into PC gaming is they think its v expensive, but it isn’t in reality. I just spent the same amount i would on a normal PC + what i would have spent on a console and came away with something even better for both tasks :)
yeah thats right, PC gamers are king!!….wait…I play xbox…..
… and that’s supposed to prove your point wrong?
Shadowrun was a game from Microsoft that you could play on XBOX against those playing on the PC with Games for Windows Live. Not judging the game but Microsoft has already demonstrated that you can have consoles players play against PC players. I thought they did a good job of balancing the versions of the game so one platform did not have an advantage over the other.
Shadow run was a game that you played with your mind and some dice.
I honestly think its a good idea, but you have to limit games…yes, MW v PC-MW will suck cause its a whole control scheme. But badass games like puzzles, strategies, simulators…i think it would be awesome to see XBL v. windows LIVE!
I think they need to make the XBL Arcade games available to buy and play on Windows. That way you can pick up where you left on them when you’re on your PC, Xbox or WP7 based phone. They could even open it up so anybody can submit Arcade games I’m sure that would entice some developers.
the accuracy of mouse vs control is a stron point. But I also think that money is important.
Playing in a console doesn’t require a lot of money. a couple houndred dollars and you’re set. With pc games you need to spend a lot of money in order to have a decent experience. So it is normal that hardcore pc players are more commited to the videogames than console gamers or (s)he would be playing in a much more cheaper console.
I didn’t notice Chad Huber commented about money first. my bad
Playing on a console costs more money, not less. Assuming you have a computer that’s not too much of a dinosaur (most people do), all you need is a graphics card capable of running games at current generation console quality for a comparable experience–which you can get for FAR less than the cost of a console. PC gaming doesn’t have to be at enthusiast level (although it is nice, of course).
Are you kidding me? You think that upgrading the gpu is sufficient to play newer games? Ever heard of RAM, or the CPU? How about bus size? You know what, go buy yourself a pc circa 2001 specs, and put in a shiny new high-end graphics card, and test this brilliant, well-informed theory of yours.
Console games only require the initial purchase of the console, plus the games,
That’s the cheap(er) part
You also have the accessories, which includes things like extra controllers, controller addons, (like the wiimote extras) headset, webcam, price of Xbox Live (for xbox users), Price of Points (all the major consoles have micropurchase systems of somekind, especially for buying downloadable games)
Pc users can get by without a microphone, I mean if you use quickchat, or just use say, It’s not a huge problem, unless you are a big gamer.
Pc users also have hardware, unless you buy stock, a custom setup means buying all the hardware separately in most cases.
Price point on tv vs monitor is pretty much moot, since a monitor can go over a hundred, and tv’s go way over a hundred (normally from like 300 to 2000 if not more or less )and gamers tend to go for higher priced tv’s for some reason.
its just not player skill .
pc has the advantage in several areas other than just mouse keyboard.
pc has the abillity to let the user adjust their fps to however high they allow their budget to set it .
consoles games are stuck at 60 fps or lower.
so a pc gamer may be getting 120 fps or better on their setup.
this translates into an advantage for the pc gamer.
PC gamers can customize there latency by choosing and customizing their hardware . In turn lowering their input lag.
Which again translate into a advantge for pc gamers.
Also a pc gamer has the option of multiple monitor solutions increasing the games resolution and thus increasing the field of view. again
giving the pc gamer an advantage.
so the pc gamer can customize at least 4 hardware based systems to allow for serious advantages.
and this has nothing to do with skill.
when we bring skill into the equation one can look at counterstrike or other hardcore first person shooter such as the unreal series or quake. and realize that these games have endowed pc gamers with above average skills that make them serious competition . and makes them nearly unstoppable when placed in a environment where other players who have not had the same experience .
a good analogy would be placing a group of noobs into a clan run counterstrike server. the clan members are on one team and the noobs on the other . this is what it is like when you introduce console players to pc gamers in a first person shooter environment .
(if you dont get the analogy basically the clan team runs all over the noobs) or just fire up counterstrike and play several games on several servers you will soon experience it.
so summing all this up the pc has several customizable hardware advantages.
the pc gaming environment has increased the end user skill level .
thus making the pc a difficult system to compensate for when introducing the systems and the players into an environment where all other users are limited to the same hard ware and their skill set is no where near as mature .
While going from 60 fps to 120 fps is technically “a difference”, 60 fps never crippled anyone.
The point about customizing latency needs citation. I bet Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo would all strongly disagree that their controllers introduce crippling latency.
Several screen setup is possible, yeah. I’m sure these individuals exist. Not in a quantity severely affecting pc vs xbox stats though.
And finally, you agree with the article. PC gamers have more practice. They have more skills. They are better.
your citation
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/1
i do not think the console manufactures introduce crippling latency either . however with a console your ability to cut down on it is limited . The pc gamer can tweak their latency to the point where they will have an advantage.
I Should have been more detailed on screen resolutions but i was already getting to lengthy to begin with . even with out multiple monitors pc gamers are gaming above 1280 x 720p @ 3 -6 ‘ from their screen . basically they can see more and see more clearly . multiple monitors just multiply this.
and yes i agree with the article.
i just wanted to add what i felt were possibly the hurdles that developers are faced with concerning cross platform development. it runs a bit deeper than just keyboard and mouse.
What they could have done is you would only be enabled to play against Xbox gamers if you used an xbox controller. Then it would be fair. Some would probably hack the game and play with their keyboard and mouse though
Why on earth would I want to spend more money on an XBOX controller with worse performance than my already-present hardware, just so I could hear a bunch of 13y.olds screaming all (early)night.
It’s in my oppinion that in any of the Computer games I have played Screaming 13y.olds doesn’t happen.
Granted I don’t have a mike, and generally don’t leave voice chat on, or use vent.
there is maybe one guy who is over compelled to type in caps, but I think PC gamer’s are generally better behaved.
Except the difference goes above and beyond control scheme. PC gamers actually *are* better.
Input method.
/Argument
I can easily name TWO console players of note off the top of my head:
Justin Wong
Daigo Umehara
I could add a few more from the same community, but let’s be honest– the only places where PC players are going to “destroy” console gamers are in FPSes and RTSes. The type of game determines the best controller. You’re probably never going to see a legendary fighting game player on keyboards. This is really just inflammatory for the point of drawing commentary.
exactly what I wanted to say, except I’m not sure if fighting games are ‘inherently console’.. pros like daigo and justin also would never use a pad, which brings the argument to square one.
” the only places where PC players are going to “destroy” console gamers are in FPSes and RTSes”
Citation needed. You seriously think Microsoft didn’t do *any* tests with fighter games when they reached this conclusion, or are you just assuming they didn’t, because you’d like the truth to be that console gamers are as good as PC gamers?
Well if you are going to take that attitude, then do you seriously think Microsoft didn’t do *any* tests where they had the gamers switch machines? If you read the original article, it clearly says that the PCs destroyed the Xbox every time, making the Xbox (not the gamers), look bad.
Everything you are reading into it about supposed statements of the leet skillz of the PC gamers, your brain is putting there because you want it to be there, not because it was in the article. In fact, the article clearly says, that even when they put very good players on the console, and mediocre players on the PCs, the PCs still won.
Uh, you mean like this?
http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US/Live/Pages/liveconnect.aspx
Instant Messaging isn’t exactly “playing together”. ;)
Read the link more carefully. Windows Live Games isn’t just instant messaging. It’s cross-platform gaming.
(See also: Shadowrun).
This isn’t to say the control argument isn’t valid, but the article is flat-out wrong. The project did indeed see the light of day.
No, it isn’t. That’s what this article is about. But you’re free to tell me where the cross-platform is in the page you linked.
Well, I really don’t see why this wouldn’t work for, say, racing games. There are steering wheels available for all platforms.
On a side note, Crysis did have an option to restrict players to the Xbox controller. I simply can’t believe they didn’t have similar ideas in this cross-platform gaming project.
at lest we’ll see Portal 2 on the PS3 connect with the PC version for Co-op, same goes for FFXIV.
It looks like after FFXI MS deiced they wanted complete control over XBL.
Cross platform play is nothing new. We powered PC vs. Mac vs. Dreamcast in 4×4 Evolution in the year 2000!
As the very first comment notes, there are many more issues involved than simply “skill” of players. In addition to input methods being different by platform there are often many basic game details that are different. Game clock speed may be different by platform, bounding boxes, view height and many other things that may dramatically alter actual game play between platforms.
We saw this most recently with Unreal Tournament 3. Technically, cross-platform play was quite easily done between PC and PS3. The platform alterations, though, made play between platforms nearly impossible to balance, not to mention that the certification requirements present on consoles would have made it difficult to keep versions in sync between PC and any console.
If there were cross-platform gaming, I would pick PC over the 360 so I don’t have to pay for a subscription just to fucking play online.
It’s funny that we’ve been having the mouse and keyboard argument for over a decade now, and consoles are still relegated to controllers.
And what hacks have come out that allow mouse and keyboard on Xbox are useless, because the tack and yaw of the devices are interpolated as though they were gamepads.
I understand that there are developmental complications in making a game function on a variety of controllers, but professional gaming is being held back by Microsoft not having the mouse + keyboard option.
Consoles allow something that tournament play has always struggled with: a unified playing experiences. Developers develop for one set of specs and games simply work.
When I played in the PGL and CPL, it was kind of a nightmare keeping a PC up-to-spec for the latest generation of games. I tend to eschew PC gaming now in favor of the simplicity of consoles, but I still wish I could use my mouse and keyboard.
This article is complete nonsense. This Nicholas Deleon has no idea what he is talking about!
“…The reason why this project never saw the light of day?”
This project actually DID see the light of day. The game was called Shadowrun and you could play your xbox 360 version against Games for Windows PC gamers.
The reason why this idea didn’t work has nothing to do with the controls whatsoever. It is because PC gamers had to pay for Xbox Live to compete against X360 players. And nobody was willing to do that because the PC has an open architecture and PC gamers are just not willing to pay for something that comes free of charge with all other games.
And the fact that you can only name fatal1ty says more about your knowledge of esports than anything else. Console gamers are competing in all large esports tounaments.
Umm didn’t they already (implement/planned) cross platform play for Halo2? I’m pretty sure it was Halo2, at least an [OLDXbox] Game.
I knew some Pr0 Twins that played Fifa really good (tournaments and stuff)
Maybe the played PC via Gamepad
yeah it was Halo 2, but a group of Microsoft interns failed miserably, and scrapped the game like a p.o.s
Halo 2 Vista had a file called halo2.exe.cfg and in it it contained ” false”
wow.
I really think it depends on the game to be honest, FPS games were designed for PCs orginally and have now had to “adapt” to the console genre, so obviously PC gamers will be far better
However I think different for racing games, I mean we all know PC racing games are extremely realistic etc etc, but in the recent years console racing games have been catching up, with arguably more realism, anyone played Racedriver: GRID or its sequel? not to mention DIRT and DIRT 2 which are great games as well. And I can put a bet that console gamers have more control over their cars than PC gamers do, obviously it also depends on whether or not a steering wheel is being used. If so I still believe the console gamers are better.
The only reason I think they’re better is that the controls are more suited to the game type, you can adjust how hard you want to break etc etc (using just a controller not a wheel), while on PC to some extent you can’t really do this as you’re just hitting buttons.
I see a lot of “I really think” in these comments, and “the author is stupid”.
However, there’s NOTHING except your own predetermination indicating that the tests was limited to FPS games.
Holy shit, this author is dumb. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t write an article about it. This is coming from a guy who plays on console and PC, I generally find the players on PC to be easier, but almost entirely equal, at least on FPS games.
So the fact that you can name a washed-up PC gamer who hasn’t been relevant since the launch of the current gen consoles is relevant to “proving” PC gamers are more skilled how exactly? It was an entirely different scene when Fatal1ty and others were big news and their popularity at that time doesn’t have any bearing on the skillset of anyone who plays games today.
Don’t take the console to the PC, take the PC to the console.
Work on giving console gamers a keyboard and mouse, and then we’ll talk.
I thought the trolls were supposed to be in the comments… not writing the articles?
Its about the controller, playing fps with analog joystick sucks.
Shadowrun as stated many times in the comments above DID do exactly this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun_(2007_video_game)
“It was the first game to use Games for Windows – Live that allows for Windows users to play with Xbox 360 users.”
Sega released Universe at War which allowed the same thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe_at_War:_Earth_Assault
Capcom released Lost Planet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Planet:_Extreme_Condition#Collector.27s_and_Colonies_Edition
ALSO a game is planned for release soon that will allow cross platform play:
BlazBlue: Calamity Trigger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlazBlue:_Calamity_Trigger
Research isn’t difficult. Your article is completely wrong. Microsoft haven’t “killed” the functionality at all and is actually still allowing developers to put out this feature should they choose to!!!
If you’re looking for an article to write, the main point that should be raised is what is also in the comments here. The controls are superior on the PC. The controls are more accessible for the games made on the 360, its the right balance.
Even with Quake 3 on the Dreamcast it did not work well. Plugging in the DC mouse and keyboard helped a little but the PC gamer really had the better configuration.
That’s all it was and ever will be – in these kind of games the mouse and keyboard is more precise.
well, mouse definitely better that controller, but not sure about the keyboard. i think using left thumb on moving its better than wasd using 3 fingers.
Haven’t seen such a childish article in a long time. Compare the most popular online multi platform now, MW2.
Compare what? And what is your conclusion of that comparison?
Lolz! The writer is a noob! :D
They should have looked at their past testing; Halo originally was xbox/PC cross-compatible in an early form of beta. The PC gamers destroyed the console gamers every single time… the speed and precision of a mouse truly dominates any thumbstick user, no matter how skilled.
I still find it funny when I stop into a game shop and end up in a debate, with the gamepad proponent suggesting that the playing field could be levelled if the KB/mouse was capped at the same rates as the joypad.
Shadowrun, anyone? X360 players getting a bit of auto-aim, extra speed and tighter shot grouping to attempt to compensate for an infinitely crappier control scheme.
I won’t disagree that joypads are better for platformers, brawlers, or driving games (lacking a proper wheel), if for no other reason than the multiple analog inputs and restricted motion (‘shoot THAT WAY’, not ‘shoot HERE’) in the case of SmashTV or GeometryWars and its countless clones.
But a gamepad user is severely disadvantaged in any FPS, no matter their skill level, compared to a keyboard and mouse. No matter how the fanboys whine otherwise.
Lets not kid ourselves by fanboyism. There are talented gamers on both sides of the table.
The key difference is the controls as most people have pointed out… and thats it.
Intelligence for or against a platform is nothing but trolling and shouldn’t even be in this discussion.
Input method/10
And the project was implemented for Shadowrun and the newish Game Room series of arcade games.
The entire article is garbage and the author should be fired.
The input method is the key factor, anything beyond that is stretching the argument out of the realms of logic.
Mediocre PC gamers would absolutely cane your best console gamers because the latter are playing crippled, especially in FPSs.
I’d probably be swayed by the argument that PC gamers have more skill in choosing how to play games – why anybody would want to play FPS on a console is totally beyond me, and when I have tried (having been used to the K+M) it has felt like riding a bicycle with no hands. The argument that “It makes it more realistic”, as somebody has commented on this story, is laughable.
Can we agree that it’s still fair to take the proverbial out of console gamers who insist that they’d still beat us on their chosen FPS despite the controller handicap?
I’ve always thought that the term ‘serious gamer’ is a bit of an oxymoron. A game is supposed to be fun, to make it serious means it is no longer a game. Obviously not literally, but you get the point.
I’m serious, and it’s still fun–it’s just a different kind of fun.
Mouse is definitely more accurate, but I think Analog stick beats AWSD for movement and looking on a controller doesn’t require you pickup and replace your mouse to turn around. Inherently the accuracy wins the day.
I played PC Games for years before I moved to Consoles.
i emulate console on my pc for fun – to prove a point.
pc = serious gaming
console = not serious gaming.
my rig is the center of my universe. got my girlfriend one too so she doesnt bother me too much. consoles such monkey piles.
and by girlfriend do you mean your other hand?
hahahahHAHAHAHA.. LMAO .. best comment in this whole fucking argument.. hillarious… !!
Oh look… another PC gamer troll. If you really believe that console isn’t serious gaming then you really are blind.
good points, but i think the true advantage for PC gamers is their method of control, like you suggested. I played CS for years on PC, and those skills translate to other FPS games on the PC. I’m decent at CoD MW2 on my 360. On PC, after a couple warmup games on my friends computer, I rarely had worse than a 6-1 KDR, getting 2 nukes within 8 games.
keyboard+mouse > controllers. always.
In addition to the preciseness of PC controllers, hard core PC gamers typically have ultra-fast and powerful computers. On the console, everyone has the same moderately powerful console. So that matchup was always going to favor the PC game from the get go.
BTW, that’s why I prefer console gaming. I don’t wanna get involved in the rat race that’s PC gaming. I want to know I was crushed because I sucked. Not because my video card doesn’t have gagillion GB of memory.
As a PC gamer and a console gamer, I can definitely say its BOTH. Obviously the mouse/keyboard dominates a controller 10x over. But, I also think the AVERAGE pc gamer is better, or is more “serious” than the AVERAGE console gamer. Think about the guys that just buy Madden and maybe 2 other games and play 2 hours a week max. Most PC gamers that play CS or WoW, or StarCraft are intense, play way more, and therefore are better. Either way, I love both.
lol at calling Eve Online a skill based game.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Eve is a grind based game, the same as Runescape. You select a target, turn everything on and if your stats are higher than the other guy you win. No skill to it.
You can get a keyboard and mouse for the xbox 360. XIM2 360 has been out for a while now. XIM3 is in beta and is even better. The device is more or less 1:1 mouse movement and from the beta videos of BFBC2 looks awesome. From the videos aswell K+M was doing well but console gamers do hold their own.